TOPICS

Dom/Subs and Sexual Relations
Pro vs Non Pro Dommes
Is D/s about Sex or is it an Emotional/Physical Release
Punishment

THRVPashun: Are we ready for another stimulating chat tonight?:)

Guest 1: you betcha

Guest 2: yep, Guest1 has all kindsa questions.

THRVPashun: oh goodie :) hahah we LOVE his questions :) LOL

Guest 1: ojeez, she's tryin to tell me she needs to be punished again. LOL

Guest 2: actually, I probably do. I've been a brat the last few days.

THRVPashun: uh oh... then you probably do deserve it, Guest 2:)

THRVBuja: Hello Glory, nice to see you again!

THRVPashun: Hiya Glory! :)

Guest 2: Glory's here! Hi Glory!

THRVBuja: Welcome again everyone to our weekly chat... with the ever lovely Gloria Brame (aka

THRVGloryB)... It is very nice to be back. I missed this chat!

THRVGloryB: Hiya, all! How nice to be among the perverted again. :-) And this chat missed you, Buja.

Guest 1: ?

THRVPashun: Guest1 has the first question :) he's been chomping at the bit :)

Guest 1: Hiya Glory. So where's Tink tonight? Salving his wounds?

THRVBuja: I thought chomping at the bit was Guest2's role? :)

Guest 1: it is, she slipped.

THRVGloryB: I gather you had an interesting time while you were away? Anything we need to hear about, Buja dear? Tinkerbell is right here, Guest1. Cowering. ;-)

THRVPashun: We sure did miss him, Glory:)

THRVBuja: Where else on AOL can you get this kind of entertainment? :) Like what, Glory dear?

Guest 3: I see one of our tops is back

THRVPashun: welcome back,Guest 3:)

Guest 3: hi Guest2 Thanks Pash now youre a bottom again :-D

THRVGloryB: Hmm..tink may have been tossed offline.

THRVPashun: yup...not used to that :)

THRVBuja: AOL is acting very strange tonight. Pashun, that's not what I heard ;)

THRVPashun: LOL, Buja :)

THRVGloryB: Now, let's see, Buja... Just how much trouble can a young, single, pervert-about-town get into when he takes some vacation. Hmmm. Tink, curtsey to the nice people.

Guest 1: Hiya Tink... (wikked grin)

THRVPashun: hiya Tink:)

Tinkerbell: Hi Guest1... Pashun! <<<>>

Guest 2: hi Tnk!

THRVBuja: Me? Nah, I engaged in nothing but the purest of thoughts :)

Guest 1: pretty good Tink, doncha move without yer Goddess's permission.

THRVGloryB: Purest...lustful thoughts? Hello to the newcomers!

THRVBuja: So, did we have a quesiton on the table?

Guest 2: we have lots of new people here tonight, hopefully with lots & lots of questions.

THRVGloryB: Are y'all ready for another rollicking hour of sheer perversion?

Guest 4: LOL Glory

Tinkerbell: <---is always ready for perversion

THRVGloryB: Yes, perhaps we should create a new rule: if the audience doesn't ask questions of me, then I'll ask questions of them. Embarrassing questions.

Guest 5: Perversion, is that what they call it now?

THRVPashun: oh great idea! ;) LOL

Guest 1: Hey, That werks. Great idea...

THRVGloryB: Guest2--had any encounters with soap lately?

THRVBuja: Whew, at least it won't just be me that gets them :)

Guest 2: ROFL I knew that was coming.

Guest 6: ?

THRVPashun: nope, Buja...we are all fair game :)

THRVGloryB: Come to think of it...I've never really picked on Pashun before. Hmmm.

THRVPashun: LOL :) Guest6, do you have a question?:)

Guest 2: hey GREAT idea. pick on Pashun. Hey Guest6!

THRVPashun: shhhh, Guest 2:) LOL

Guest 6: I was just in a chat room and the topic came up about sex between male subs and fem doms. The new male subs seem to be saying that dommes don't have sex with their subs so I was wondering if Gloria has a feel for how common a sexual relationship is between male subs and dommes?

Guest 7: interesting...

THRVGloryB: Great question! Well, first, a distinction has to be made between what pro dommes do and what non-pro's do. Pro's very seldom have sex with clients. If they did, it becomes prostitution (rather than the "psychodrama" defense they can otherwise use). As for non-pros, my sense is that most people play with a lot of male subs with whom they're not having full relationships--play partners, part-time slaves, etc. Things change somewhat if you're in a serious long-term relationship with your sub. Then it's a lot more likely for the woman to have sex with her sub. I remember a malesub once saying his Mistress (also his wife) "forced" him to make her pregnant. So I guess sex was involved.

Guest 6: Gloria, if a pro domme instructs a male to masturbate for her, is that considered sex?

THRVGloryB: But, generally, Guest6-I don't think a whole lot of screwing's going on.:-) It's a kind of sex but I wouldn't consider that I'd had sex with someone who I ordered to jerk off for me. Even if I was watching. :-) Would you, Guest6? (I think this is a personal call, really.) (Other femdommes invited to respond too!)

Guest 6: me either.

Tinkerbell: <---doesn't think that is sex either

Guest 7: me either..

Guest 6: I guess what really matters is what the nice Mr Undercover Cop thinks :)

Guest 8: To me, D/s is not about sex. It's more mental for me. The emotional intimacy I get from a scene is of more importance to me.

THRVGloryB: Guest8--do you feel there's more intimacy without sex?

Guest 8: For me, Glory, yes.

Guest 6: Gloria, I think that a lot of people are using BDSM as a way to get sex that they wouldn't be getting in the vanilla world or at least in an attempt to

THRVGloryB: Hehe, Guest6! Mr. Police Officer thinks that if you're naked and having any kind of penetration, you're having sex.

Guest 9: To me it is about sex and there do not seem to be many non pro dommes

Guest 6: Guest9, there are plenty of us, we are just not as prominent. We tend to find what we want and sit back quietly

THRVGloryB: Guest9--I agree with Guest6. There are plenty of us. But we may not be as easy to find out there in the scene.

Guest 8: <--- non-Professional and still not about sex for me :-)

Tinkerbell: Guest9... I respectfully disagree.

Guest 6: Gloria, my D/s is not sex-based at all, but there is sex in my intimate relationships but as you said, casual play doesn't include sex at all passion, yes, intimacy, usually, energy, yes, but not sex

Guest 8: And hopefully, for my boys as well, or I guess they wouldn't play with me.

Guest 7: where do you draw the line?

THRVGloryB: Okay, then, Guest6 & Guest 8: where do you draw the line? Woops! Good going, Guest7! :-) At what point does SM separate from sex?

Guest 5: I think it all boils down to the people involved

THRVGloryB: And Guest7--are SM & sex the same for you? Guest5--what do you mean by that?

Guest 5: we are all different, and therefore our relationships are bound to be different

Guest 6: sex is when the hard thing goes in the wet thing. I don't consider flogging sex

Tinkerbell: I find the line very very very blurred. Guest6.. would you not have sex with someone you dommed?

Guest 7: possibly but not necessarily linked... b/d more than s/m are likely to be linked sexually

Guest 8: Hmmmm... Well, I have quite a few play partners, but only two I consider subs.

THRVGloryB: So--is cunninlingus sex, then, Guest6? What about ass worship?

Guest 6: I don't consider caning sex, even if my femsub orgasms when I do it. Tinker, I have sex with the ones that I also have intimate romantic relationships with

Guest 5: What works for some may not work for others

Guest 8: With the two subs, I would consider sex as part of my scene. I guess my line is blurred, as well.

THRVGloryB: Ah, then another question, Guest 6: do your *subs* consider it sex if they have orgasms?

Guest 6: okay I'll have to revise my definition to include some of those things, Glory :)

Tinkerbell: Guest6.. so one does not exclude or include the other?

THRVBuja: Glory, didn't you write a great essay on "What is Sex?"

THRVGloryB: Frankly, the line between what is and isn't sex (even vanilla-wise) has always seemed very blurred to me. It's so subjective!

Guest 6: Tinker, the way I say it is that the D/s is not the reason for the sex and the sex is not the reason fortheD/s

Guest 4: Guest7, why is b/d more sexually linked than s/m?

Tinkerbell: <-----likes it all! :-)

Guest 6: Glory, my femsub does not consider it sex when she has an orgasm due to being caned it is a physical release, not like a sexual orgasm when I am doing an S/M scene, sexual pleasure and sexual contact are not the focus

THRVBuja: Guest6 (and others), if you say that sex is not the reason or motivation, what is?

THRVGloryB: Hmmm...Guest6, I have a little difficulty with this. From my POV, if it involves the genitals, and an orgasm...I don't see how it could be anything BUT sex. (At least for the individual experiencing it.) For example, when I masturbate, I consider it to be sex. Do others?

Guest 7: s/m seems to me to be more centered around the exchange of pain where as s/m is the in my mind the manifesting of everything leading up to that point mentally without something very different but hard to describe...

Guest 6: D/s is just what we are, all the rest, B/D, S/M, etc are the things that we do Glory, I guess I should explain that with my femsub, since neither of us are bi, there is no genital contact or even nipples etc so that is why we say that isn't sex I don't get an erotic thrill or sexual arousal through D/s, or through S/M

Guest 4: thank you for clarifying Guest 7:)

Guest 1: I think it is all a gateway to physiological arousal.

THRVGloryB: This is a very sticky subject. (ducking)

THRVBuja: Booooo.

Guest 5: LOL Gloria

Guest 10: It's a gateway to our emotions, the feelings we have

THRVGloryB: If you don't get an erotic thrill...then why do it?

Guest 7: hormone moderation gloria...

Tinkerbell: <---gets and incredible erotic thrill when being tormented. :-)

Guest 6: for the energy and the passion and the intimacy, it is just plain fun. It is a connection between two people but, for me and mine, it is not foreplay or sex

Guest 2: lol

Guest 1: LOL, I can dig that.

THRVGloryB: Tink, I'm not sure your responses count, considering how slutty you are. :-)

Tinkerbell: (blush)

THRVGloryB: Well...may I ask how it first occurred to you that you wanted SM in your life? For me, my first inklings of my orientation were all the sexual fantasies I had at night (even as a child) when I was masturbating.

Guest 6: I realize that I am in the minority. Sex-based BDSM is much more common as is the version of BDSM that is sex only

THRVGloryB: Did others discover their SM interests differently?

Guest 2: (psst..Tnk. I think she actually picks on you more than me!?!)

Guest 7: nope hits it right on the head....so to speak...

Guest 8: I had the fantasies all my life, just never knew what they were. But then I found the right chat room on AOL, and said, "You do what?" I want to, too!!"

Tinkerbell: Guest2... no kidding.

THRVGloryB: Guest8--in what context did you have the fantasies?

Guest 8: Actually, the men in my fantasies were my captives. You know, the math teacher, the PE teacher, etc. The rest is history :-) And I was always the leader in school, too. People looked to me to take charge.

Guest 6: I've just always been this way, in charge, in control. I just didn't know that there were men who liked that and that they would let me spank them :)

THRVGloryB: <---discovered her perversity on line too. :-) Guest6, did you always like the idea of hurting men?

THRVBuja: See, AOL ain't so bad :)

THRVPashun: Pretty darn good, Buja :)

Guest 6: no Glory, that is something that grew on me :) in fact, I still don't like the idea of hurting men. Unless they want it :)

THRVGloryB: Guest6! rofl!

Tinkerbell: <---is noting that folks seem to have come out of their shell with a vengence. :-)

THRVGloryB: <---likes to hurt men

THRVPashun: Guest4, go ahead and ask your question :)

THRVGloryB: So, Guest6, for you it's more of a psychological than physical outlet? May I be really nosy and ask if you enjoy rough sex in bed, though?

Guest 1: yep, about time too. :-)

Guest 6: Glory, when I say that it grew on me, here is an example.. . when I first started this, I thought I could never do CBT it seemed so cruel and now, I love it

THRVGloryB: <---loves CBT! had fantasies about it even as a little girl.

Guest 4: the idea of wanting to hurt someone....not sexually relaated.......please deifine that for me

Guest 6: yes to the psychological, although the physical aspects of swinging a whip etc are part of it and the feel as the leather hits the flesh, and the sound . . as to your nosy question , I mostly have vanilla sex. Okay its a little kinky.

Tinkerbell: hmmmmm.....

THRVGloryB: One of the earliest fantasies I can remember is wanting to press ice up against a man's genitals and see what happened. I must've been about 7 or 8 at the time.

THRVBuja: Glory, ever the little scientist :)

Guest 2: well, Tnk....what exactly DOES happen??? naa, just kidden, don't answer that.

THRVGloryB: Yep, Buja, that's me: I do this all in the name of science. :-) AHA! "A little kinky!" :-) So...(getting nosier)...what's that mean, exactly?

THRVBuja: I nominate Glory for the Nobel prize :)

Guest 1: Nobel Piece Prize

THRVPashun: LOL Guest 1:)

Guest 6: it means that I have almost always enjoyed tying men up during sex and I enjoy fisting and other anal play with an intimate partner (I consider that making love)

Guest 7: but bdsm and sex ARENT related?

THRVGloryB: Like, Guest7, I am a tad confused by how you make the distinctions, Guest6.

Guest 6: but the funny thing is, now that I get to do all the other stuff, my sex has gone more towards the vanilla I don't know Glory, I guess you'd have to come look in my bedroom to see what I mean :) Sex to me is making love, it isn't a power play so even if I have four fingers up his butt, it's making love, not domming, to me

Tinkerbell: Now I find out... all the pain I go through is for science.

THRVPashun: LOL

Guest 1: Guest6, you have some "interesting" definitions.

THRVBuja: Tnk, the sacrifices you make!

THRVGloryB: Yes, tink: you are the little insect on my slide.

Guest 3: sounds like an invite

Tinkerbell: rofl

Guest 11: I guess like most things... sex MAY or may not be involved... as far as actual penetration. But isn't there power involved in most sexual situations?

THRVGloryB: Guest6, darling! Is that an invitation? :-) (Strictly my scientific research, of course. ) Guest11--I think there *is* some degree of power exchange in all sex.

Guest 7: xlnt question...

Guest 6: LOL Glory! Guest11, if there is, I think it flows back and forth

Guest 11: Yes.. in most situations i would agree... unless you have established a definitive sub/dom thing..it is likely to switch and or flow as Guest6 said :)

THRVGloryB: I think kinky people, though, crave an explicit expression of the power. In some cases, we need to ritualize it. Or (for the subs among us) we need to feel that the power is being imposed on us--that we're forced to be the submissive party.

Guest 11: I tend to agree Glory

Guest 6: I like to feel that I am being made love to, not that I am "domming" someone into servicing me but that is just my opinion and as I said, I am in the minority in the lifestyle

THRVGloryB: Has anyone here ever wondered why we kinky folks do need to turn sexual power into rituals?

Guest 11: well there is a difference between one who would want to be dominated and one who has to be forced into it. Most human behavior is most comfortable in a ritual situation. we have a ritual for just about everything we do.

Guest 12: well Guest6 I can understand that need even as a sub

Guest 7: I agree Glory, it is an explicit expression that leaves little to doubt

THRVGloryB: Guest6--I appreciate your POV. I believe we all come to this with our own individual way of seeing it and different needs we want fulfilled. For me, SM (or D&S/BDSM, whatever), is intensely erotic.

Guest 7: it helps us understand the dynamics of a situation if we can mentally make it a ritual like working out, you have a mental measuring stick to monitor yourself...

Guest 13: A Great Rite!

Guest 11: perhaps the difference is, Glory, that in BDSM we freely admit our preferable roles? Ritual helps bring a better grasp or control to everything...

THRVGloryB: Guest7--do you think, perhaps, rituals helps us place controls on sexuality? Brings order to chaos, as it were?

Guest 6: Glory, one of the problems I have when I talk about non-sex-based BDSM is that people think that means I don't have sex with my subs

Guest 1: I think rituals are our way of giving meaning to the acts we do creating a context as it were.

Guest 7: it definitely brings order to chaos...perfectly clear a lot of times... I too find it intensely erotic...

Guest 11: especially those areas of our life that are more uncertain... as in our sexuality (and religion) helping us to face and or realize our truest sexual nature perhaps?

THRVGloryB: Guest1--what's the context you think we bring when we use SM rituals?

Guest 6: rituals enforce intimacy, because they are private vanilla folks have rituals too, they just don't call it that :)

Guest 1: hmm.... ( thinking)

Guest 2: that's true Guest6.

Guest 12: May I get clarification on the term rituals, please?

THRVGloryB: You mean like "slam, bam, thank you, ma'am," Guest6?

Guest 7: in a frenetic world where so much is out of our control it is nice to have something so clearly defined for us

Guest 11: I agree Guest 6:)

THRVGloryB: Who'd like to take a stab at defining SM rituals?

Guest 11: Ritual... as in regularly enforced or accepted actions... does that sound correct?

Guest 6: LOL Glory, no I mean things like pet names they call each other, starting the day with a kiss, a hand squeeze etc A Ritual is something that you do the same way everytime and it has a purpose or a meaning

Guest 1: an act without a framework of meaning is an empty act. the ritual creates the framework. make sense?

Guest 11: well... rather I think the *ritualistic* nature of an act defines it and makes it harder to deny.

THRVGloryB: I think rituals can be highly individual--pertaining to a particular couple. There are group rituals--things most BDSMers accept as rituals, like collaring or keeping a slave shaved. While not everyone does it, most people agree that these are accepted expressions of dominance over your sub. But a couple may have their own ritual they play out which is repeated in the relationship but is unique to that couple. (Like if someone has a fetish for a particular piece of equipment, that equipment could take on ritual significance in their play.) One example: I have one especially stringent paddle which is Tink's punishment paddle. I save it usually for serious infractions.

Guest 12: Thank you. I understand the actual definition of ritual but wasn't sure if you meant something more like spiritual things, satanic etc.

Guest 11: Bravo Glory! Very well put :)

Guest 3: what would be serious infractions?

THRVGloryB: Now, I believe Guest1 is developing a mouth-washing ritual with Guest2. ;-)

Guest 1: LOL

Guest 12: I understand now. I was asked once about rituals and wasn't sure how to answer and the Dom couldn't help

Guest 4: Webster: a ceremonial act or actions :a customarily repeated act or series of acts

THRVBuja: Thanks to you Glory! :)

Guest 2: <---sitting here quietly minding my own business.

Guest 11: Therefore Tink knows to expect that particular paddle when she crosses certain boundaries.... therefore..... Tink willingly accepts the punishment before the act is ever commited in a sense.

THRVGloryB: (taking bow and waving crop in queenly fashion) Thanks, Buja. Always happy to enhance someone's perversion quotient. :-)

Tinkerbell: <---knows the punishment paddle intimately

THRVGloryB: Uhhh...Tink is actually a man. Or was, until I got my hands on him. :-) Yes, when he visits here, if he sees the paddle in my hands, he knows he's in for some serious punishment.

Guest 1: hey Glory, izzat like mind yer P's n Q's?

Guest 6: I have a ritual with my collared sub where he kneels by the bed each night while we talk about the day before bed and then I kiss his scar where I cut my initial in him at the collaring.

Guest 14: Interesting..I don't use play for punishment Hi TinkerKinkerbell

THRVGloryB: That's a beautiful ritual, Guest6!

THRVGloryB: Guest14--can you explain what you mean?

Guest 14: I mean I use a cleaning chore for a slight infraction or banishment for a biggie but play is only done as a reward ..never when I am angry

Guest 6: Glory, it re-enforces our bond, each day. Rituals should have a purpose known to both people, IMHO

THRVGloryB: Guest14--is that because the play never reaches a level of serious pain? Or just that you place all pain in the "play" category?

Guest 7: the ritual being known to both is crucial... otherwise there is no free communication which this is in a way...

Guest 11: oh I would definitely agree that you should have a clear understanding of the context that punishment is dealt there is a big difference between a blow from true anger and ritual play.

Guest 15: Glory, are you pagan?

Guest 14: No Ma'am..it's because I just associate play with pleasure and if I'm angry I am not going to reward with play

THRVGloryB: What do you mean by pagan, Guest15? I don't worship any pagan gods.

Guest 1: it is kinda useless to give pain as punishment to a deep masochist. They like it too much.

Guest 11: but do you also associate pain with pleasure Guest14? LoL I agree Guest 1:)

Guest 14: Do I? No..I'm not a masochist

Guest 15: I just thought I noticed a pent around your neck on the previous picture screen

THRVGloryB: No--it's a Tibetan amulet depicting a snow lion.

Guest 15: Ahh ok.

THRVGloryB: Will (my husband) wears an identical one.

Guest 11: oh ok Guest14... just wondered...

THRVGloryB: Well, let's ask my little masochistic slave, tink: do you feel a difference between pain that is for fun and pain that is for punishment?

Guest 14: I just love Mistress Glorias book and recommend to all newbies I have a great regard for her

Guest 6: <--- staying out of the punishment topic because we only have 10 minutes left :)

Guest 1: go for something very tedious, boring, or extremely distasteful. like soap. :)

Guest 7: of course he knows...

Tinkerbell: Yes.. the pain for punishment makes me feel.... guilty... But I still know it was for unintentional infractions

THRVGloryB: Guilt! Oh! How erotic to a Jewish dominatrix! :-)

Guest 12: very true Tink..... you know you've done something wrong to displease.. you can not have pleasure in that

THRVPashun: LOL

Guest 6: LOL Glory

THRVGloryB: But why does one kind of pain feel different from another, Tink?

Tinkerbell: I If it were intentional.. I think I would be treated differently.

Guest 14: <~~guilty..mama is Jewish

THRVGloryB: For example--a severe caning (for fun) doesn't elicit the same kind of emotional response from you as a paddling with that evil wooden thing.

Tinkerbell: I think it is the sound of your voice...also the rapidity of the strokes. I may not be able to explain it.. but I know when you are displeased with me. The paddling with the evil wooden thing is terribly cruel. And I know I am being punished.

Guest 14: Is there any particular fetish that Mistress Gloria has an aversion to?

Guest 7: because you know one was intended to hurt good and one hurt bad... like poking your own finger feels different than the doctor...which compounds it...

THRVGloryB: Guest7, I think you've hit the nail (or the penis) on the head!

Guest 11: Yea I pout more when the doctor does it :) And i suppose each individual responds differently.

Guest 12: it is very psychological

THRVGloryB: Yes--I suspect my whole attitude also changes when I'm beating for mutual pleasure and beating as a punishment. I think that's right, Guest11. Masochists who can eroticize every type of pain, no matter what, are candidates for the kinds of things Guest14 mentioned. As for aversions, Guest14--I don't have any I'm aware of, though

Guest 11: I would think that there are those that would take great pleasure from having a *bad habit* curbed through punishment...

Tinkerbell: When I see the punishment paddle... I am afraid.

THRVGloryB: I'm not into *every* possible thing. Yet, anyway. :-) Yes, Guest11. A lot of spanking fetishists are particularly enamored of spankings as a means of behaviorial adjustment.

Guest 14: You like toilet subs and subs who have castration fantasies Mistress Gloria??

Guest 7: thats where the difference between punishment and discipline can come into play

THRVGloryB: I like a little play in those directions, Guest14, but anything that would cause permanent damage (like mutilation) or illness(like ingesting feces) are outside the "safe, sane" pale for me. So--golden showers, yes. Diapers, yes. Enemas, yes. ingesting feces, no.

Guest 11: yes... thank you... that does clarify it well.

Guest 14: LOL No blow up sheep dolls?

THRVBuja: Well, folks, our time is about up... I can't believe how fast the time goes here!

Guest 2: awww....so sooooon????

THRVGloryB: I wouldn't mind making Tink have, um, sexual congress with one. :-) Yes, isn't perversion FUN!?

Tinkerbell: oh my!

Guest 14: Stay Mistress Gloria..please do...my son just let me at the keyboard here

THRVBuja: Always good to keep them wanting more though...don't you agree Glory?

THRVGloryB: Tink--there obviously haven't been enough blow-up sheep yet in our relationship.:-) Well, folks, you made this the BEST chat yet!! What a blast! Thank you so much for all contributing so much!

Tinkerbell: Oh no..(shaking head)

Guest 14: Mistress Gloria do you ever switch?

Guest 7: when might we meet here again?

THRVBuja: Glory will be back next Sunday at 11pm!

THRVPashun: Thank you again, Glory and Buja :)

THRVBuja: Special thanks to Pashun, and eveyone who contributed so much. I'll have to increase the max room size! Goodnight everyone :)

THRVGloryB: I guess y'all will have to wait until NEXT WEEK to find out if I switch! :-) Bye and thanks again to all!!

THRVPashun: night :)