I'm going to share a post I made sometime back on D/s families. I hope this starts some good conversation.

Copyright Catherine Gross 2002, not for reproduction or duplication without permission.

<< What makes a D/s family..actually, more simply asked - what is it?>>

The first answer is a family or D/s family is exactly what you want it to be. However, for this discussion, I don't believe that answer is helpful in
the least. So, I'm going to answer this question based on what my D/s family is like. It is not the "right" way to do it for anyone but myself and those involved.

Ok, with the understanding that this is only my personal answer, back to the question. What is a D/s family?

My D/s family is a group of individuals who actively contribute to the health of the whole hierarchal unit by their contributions to the unit. These contributions are useful, productive and generally service oriented. These contributions are also governed and focused by one (i.e. head of house
and that would be me). Each contributor is unique and required to develop their unique abilities to strength and further their ability to contribute/serve.

Secondly, these ties exist based on need, desire, discipline, and affection/love.

>Is it some form of extended polyamory?

Yes and no. If polyamory means based on being "in love", then the answer is no. If polyamory means a form of affectional bonds, then the answer is yes.
I play with everyone in my family. Every last one of them is a highly respectable masochist. Shall we say, I have needs. : ) I also love every
member of my family individually and deeply.

>What makes it erotic or "hot"?

It is hot and erotic sometimes- not all the time. I would say it is more about a baseline need to be useful, to serve and affection. I have a deep need to be served, given submission and rule my world. Those around me have a deep need to serve. That is one aspect. Another aspect is the need to be
advised, cared for, heard, seen and guided in ones growth- that would be my leather children. Fortunately, within our family dynamic, we have varied
places. My children happily submit to me. I happily love them, hear them and give to them. They also take care of the house and at a word from me will provide me with anything (yes, anything) I want or need within their ability. I am given this because they know I would give them my last dime, the clothes off my back or anything else they ever needed from me. They
know I will make decisions that are not good for me but are very good for them (if necessary). That builds trust and devotion.

With that as a foundation for this question, the heat comes into the submission and the fact that their Ma'am/Momma/Ma/Mom is capable of anything
and happily does fly bys with them as they clean, work and breathe. Not to mention, the verbal games are daily. I can't resist. My children and boy
make the most delightful targets. It's really so fun it should be illegal to play in someone else’s mind. My one child at times "flat lines" during these games! Meaning, stops thinking and is like a deer in headlights. How fabulous is that! The heat can come from the service, the submission, the masochism, and the constant mindfucks/verbal games that are
part of our life.

> Is it a bit like a fraternity or sorority?

Perhaps but that tie doesn't adequately cover the feeling of connectedness. It does not adequately cover the responsibility we feel to and with each other. It does not adequately cover the commitment we make to each other to be there through thick and thin, through growth and change, in hard times and good times. We are more deeply bound than I imagine such a club would
be.

> I really don't understand the dynamic and how it fits into the context of BDSM. Why do people band together and call themselves a "D/s family", mommies, daddies, little girls, etc. - I don't understand the sociological
nature of this dynamic.>

It fits into the context of BDSM as it is based upon service and use. I come first. I am the glue, the vision and the one who is served. I dominate all of them to one degree or another. There you have the basis for the BDSM connection. We have the commitments, steadiness and unconditional
love that families are supposed to have for and with each other. By unconditional, I specifically mean there are areas I refuse to interfere with or command in regards to my boy/children’s decision-making/learning
process. That would be stupid and it would interfere with their ability to grow and make themselves more valuable to me in the long run. Sometimes they
make decisions I do not care for, sometimes they do things I don't like at all-- however, just because I don't like whatever it may be doesn't mean I don't love them (i.e. unconditional love). While their relationship is conditional with me, my love for them is not. There you have the "family" part. This is what makes us a D/s Family.

Now you bought into it titles like Mommies, Daddies, etc. These are titles. They are not necessarily a part of this dynamic. Our family is based on
usefulness first- not upon being the Cleavers. While I am Momma/Ma/Mom, I am Ma'am first. Those titles are indicative of how people relate not necessarily of family functionality. My leather daughter is a perfect
example. I am her Momma. I love that girl so deeply it leaves me breathless at the sheer magnitude. I hold her, I talk to her, I teach her, I revel in her successes as a top/bottom and person, and I hurt her when it pleasures me. She does not generally serve others-- it is not her gig. However, she submits and is service oriented with me. It is a gift of love, devotion and unequaled.

We are diverse and function on many levels with each other. Service, learning and furthering our SM knowledge/relations come first. Also, please
see the next answer as it also helps explain the sociological nature of this dynamic.

> I have my close friends in the scene, folks I play with, folks I just enjoy socially in the scene. But I've never had the desire to create a "family". Can you or anyone else shed some insight into this component of our world.>

Our desire to live as we do comes from our personal needs for service/to be served. Our need to be seen for whom we are, as we are in a stable, safe
environment that we can share.

Speaking just for me, my need to have a family comes from my need to rule. My need for servants and more than one servant. I can manage several. I have heard people listen to my classes and then go to others saying I was full of crap- that no one could do that without an army. Guess what? I have one. This aids my continued interest in D/s and SM- after doing this
for sometime one needs to up the ante- and I have. I have a need to love. I have a need to nurture. I have a big need to pass on what I know, what I have learned and entrust it to others. Teaching at conferences won't give that to me completely-- teaching my family will. I trust them to honor what I teach them and to use it wisely.

I am a woman who will not give birth. I don't have too- all that love that might have gone to a biological child now goes to my leather children. Imagine having a parent who loves you as you wish to be loved? This is what my children get- a parent who sees them, loves them, teaches them and does not attempt to change who they are but loves them as is. Not for their
potential, not for who they might be, but for who they are as they are now.

I hope this one perspective has shed some light on the concept and reasons why some make the choices for leather families that they do.

(Since this was written, my family has had a few changes, my girl now has a magnificient Daddy who she submits too and I released the boy I mentioned)

So what do you think of D/s Families?

Catherine

i think D/s "families" sound great. i can very well understand your point of view and you expressed your attitude toward your family wonderfully. AND, you expressed the reasons WHY you like families. That is not something that i have ever heard articulated so succinctly. i understand much more about them now.

About the structure: i have heard of D/s families in which there is a very rigid hierarchy--for instance, an alpha slave, beta.. etc. Is this kind of structure something you enjoy? Or do you more enjoy a sort of "everyone's place is unique" kind of situation, where, aside from you being the Ma'am of the house, no one really answers to anyone else?

Have you ever had problems with jealousy or with the members of your family feeling neglected--like they do not receive the attention they need?

One more thing. You said that you would not consider the relationship like polyamory if one regarded polyamory as a "love based" relationship. Yet you mentioned that you love your family members. i think i get this, because i think i experience this feeling too. But i'd like to pick your brain a little about it, since we kind of brushed on the topic in Come Hither:

Do you mean that your relationship is based on D/s, but that love exists between you and your family in that context? A different kind of love? The love between Owner and slave? (Ma'am and boy, Ma'am and girl etc etc.).

Thank you for such an enlightening contribution.

You really do articulate it very well Catherine, your family dynamic and structure, I mean. Having been blessed to meet and know some of your family and having seen the dynamic at work in your home once or twice, I can attest to the fact that its not a fantasy, its very much a reality......your's and their's. Romantic love is not involved at every level, but love certainly is. I love what you say about imagine having a parent who loved you for who and what you are. That, in my opinion is the family part of every D/s family that I have had the pleasure to meet and be part of. We love each other unconditiionaly for who and what each of us is, not what we wish that they would be; without regard to race, creed, time in, etc, etc, etc. I also do not see the need for romantic love or sex to be involvd for it to be poly, but granted I have not ever truly been in a poly situation. The biggest things that have ever come through to me, from your writings here and from your class on family hierarchal structure, is that it is based on a need to serve and to be served. Service to me goes beyond the play space or event with someone getting your drink and lighting your cigarettes. There really are people who do have a need and desire to be served and others who have a need to serve......it's a part of their natures. These people banding together into family's seems to be somewhat the natural order. And even for those that don'y have those needs or those drives, I think it wonderful that they can see with their own eyes, examples of what works for those who do and perhaps provide a bit more understing.

Justin Medlin
YDWPFWEP!

singed_phoenix asked:

<About the structure: i have heard of D/s families in which there is a very rigid hierarchy--for instance, an alpha slave, beta.. etc. Is this kind of structure something you enjoy? >

It does have its place, however, I prefer not to use that particular structure unless absolutely necessary.

I believe strongly that each individual will have their special talents and areas of strength. I think power should be given based on those contextual strengths. Sometimes one person will have greater power in one type of situation, while the next day the other person will take the lead in another situation. This provides a certain equality between those who serve. The individuals functioning in such a situation will be able to feel valued, powerful and they generally will have a healthy mindset regarding team work. They aid each other, learn to respect each other's talent and are more open to learning from each other because the swinging pendulum of who gets power in any given moment allows them to be open to each other in ways they may not have been if only one person had power all the time. They also learn to trust each other in this team frame work. It also provides ample opportunity for praise and personal petting for a job well done. Everyone feels appreciated. The one who leads gets to thank the one who aids. The one who aids learns another lesson regarding what makes the leader valuable and everyone gets their turn. I have found this system to be much more workable for units of multiple people. It provides for the individual and yet provides for the group. All it takes from me is that I am smart enough to recognize who is best for what job, clear direction for all parties and the rest is taken care of smoothly.

I don't believe in forced familiar relations. I feel that I must allow people to come to their own terms with each other. They must learn about each other so they can trust each other. All I ask is that they respect each other and provide each other with courtesy. They find their own ways into each other's hearts. I found this to be true.

<<Or do you more enjoy a sort of "everyone's place is unique" kind of situation, where, aside from you being the Ma'am of the house, no one really answers to anyone else? >>

I feel it's absolutely necessary that each person has a unique station. If one does not provide that, how could you provide for each individual's needs and feelings of security? We all have a need to feel special and valued. When we speak of those who serve we must add a greater emphasis on creating situations where each individual feels needed, useful and appreciated for their contribution. If owners do not create situations that are unique, the servant may feel that they may be replaced by anyone at any given moment. This does not provide for security and may lead to a truly neurotic servant. After all, how could any of us function if we didn't feel secure?

<<Have you ever had problems with jealousy or with the members of your family feeling neglected--like they do not receive the attention they need? >>

Yes. I deeply regret having to say I have experienced that. One situation was out and out jealousy when I took a partner. It was further complicated by several other changes which also did not fit what that person needed in order to lead their best life. Unfortunately, I was unable to resolve those issues and to be honest, I lost not only a good servant but one of the great loves of my life.

In another situation someone else didn't feel that they were getting the time or attention they needed. They were 1000% correct. They were not getting their due from me. I was working ungodly hours and working for free for the SM community to the detriment of my family. I was wrong. Family must come first. This situation was one I was able to repair because I owned it totally and changed my life. I earned their trust back over time by doing the right thing by my family and not making excuses or hiding behind the old adage of, "I'm head of house, I'll do as I please." I'm lucky to be loved well and I better live up to that on a daily basis. There you have one of my never ending goals.

As to out and out jealousy, yes, we've bumped into that a few times. Only once was I unable to solve it. In the other situations of jealousy, open communication and consistant behavior has solved it beautifully. You deal with things straight on and most times you can resolve it when you have a good track record and have earned trust all along. Being consistant and honest pays off.

<<One more thing. You said that you would not consider the relationship like polyamory if one regarded polyamory as a "love based" relationship. Yet you mentioned that you love your family members. i think i get this, because i think i experience this feeling too. But i'd like to pick your brain a little about it, since we kind of brushed on the topic in Come Hither: >>

Actually, I said "in love." While I love my baby boy f, the boy's top F, my girl H, and my boy G-- I am not romantically in love with any of them. The keyword is romantically. I am in love with the boy...no doubt and I have been for over eight years-- it's an in love I experience very differently from the romantic loving I share with my partner, T.

Please, make no mistake-- these people are my heart. I believe them to be a part of my soul. There isn't anything I wouldn't give them willingly to keep them from harm or provide for their needs. I would be less as a human being without them. They honor me everyday with their loving thereby making me one of the most blessed women who has ever lived.

<<Do you mean that your relationship is based on D/s, but that love exists between you and your family in that context? A different kind of love? The love between Owner and slave? (Ma'am and boy, Ma'am and girl etc etc.). >>

While my relationships with them have some basis in D/s, it is also highly based on sentiment and affection. f and H are my "children." They are my kids. My love for each and every member of my family is different. I love each of them for all the special attributes that make them unique and gloriously surprising individuals. To say I have one type of love with the whole family just wouldn't be accurate. We all fit together in a myriad of ways with multi-layered relationships.

For example, let's take a look at my "daughter" H. When I think of someone harming her, I grow by ten feet, wish to scoup her up, tuck her away in the Momma apron and take that person out permanently whose harming her. When she has a triumph, I am so proud of her that I can hardly contain myself. Now, I also like to play with her from time to time. After a few years, I developed a penchant for making her cry. I love it. I love to hear her plead. It's delicious in the extreme. I love playing humiliation games with her also and do this almost on a daily basis in one form or another-- I call them fly bys or vinettes. When she tops, I feel pride when she does a good job or I take a simple pleasure that is along the lines of "Ah, how nice, the children are playing." When I co-top with her, I revel in her competency and the compliment of her. I love sitting with the young woman who speaks to me and sorts her life with me. Our relationship is multi-layered and I experience different emotions with all the different types of interactions I share with her.

All my relationships are multi-layered and have depth.

Did I mention I am blessed?

Catherine

nah, = not Hawkins, = his kate. *sitting here with my breakfast reading all this thinking...'i am in wonderland'..*

Hawkins,

Perhaps you have a question and I may assist in more clearly explaining my reality?

Catherine

Thank you for your answers, Lady Catherine. Of course, they lead me to ask other questions. i understand if you don't have time. i do not mean to dominate this board (pun intended). i was just curious about something and hoped to do a bit more brain-picking and generate discussion too.

You mentioned many times that you think of your servants as you would your children. You mention a dynamic in which you teach and guide as they learn.

It is well-known that many slaves (servants, bottoms, girls, boys.....etc.) are high-power people in everyday life. Often, we know as much about life as our owners, although people will, of course, have different areas of expertise such that they can learn from each other.

i get the feeling through reading your posts, that you consider yourself the teacher, the guide--with a sort of parent/child dynamic in place. i totally get this sort of dynamic when there is say a real differential when it comes to life skills, or maybe maturity levels, experience in the lifestyle, etc.

But what happens when you meet up with a bottom (sub, slave, boy, girl etc.) whose skills in life management are as well-developed as your own? People who don't need or want parenting--people who need to serve just because they need to serve?

i ask this, because my relationship with my Owner is much like what you described--minus the "family" part as She does not want more than one slave. It's a complicated sort of dynamic that exists between us. i recognize (and She recognizes) that my life skills and judgement skills are just as well-developed as Hers--slightly better when it comes to some things, slightly worse when it comes to others. But...still i feel a bit like Her kid and, She even calls me "child," Her girl, etc. although, my function as Her slave is quite salient too.

i note that the parent/child or teacher/student kind of dynamic can't really stem from a life skills/intelligence/maturity/experience (etc.) differential between us. For us, it is something else that fosters this kind of dynamic that i can't quite pinpoint or articulate. Hence... my reason for trying to pick your brain--and the brain of anyone else who wants to jump in :-)

Any comments?

singed_phoenix said,

<<You mentioned many times that you think of your servants as you would your children. You mention a dynamic in which you teach and guide as they learn. >>

Actually, I believe we have a misunderstanding. I have leather children. They are not my servants but they would provide service if I needed it. They are not owned by me-- they are my kids. Now the servants I refer to are different people entirely. My servants are not my children. I don't mix the two.

Servants are owned and have an entirely different set of rules, function and behavior than my children.

<<i get the feeling through reading your posts, that you consider yourself the teacher, the guide--with a sort of parent/child dynamic in place. i totally get this sort of dynamic when there is say a real differential when it comes to life skills, or maybe maturity levels, experience in the lifestyle, etc. >>

Yes, that is for my children. Granted, servants will receive lessons as well but that has to do with expanding their ability to be useful (and on occasion to cope with their lives). Mostly servants receive an education with me that is about dining service, butlering skills, etc. Not Mommy time.

<<But what happens when you meet up with a bottom (sub, slave, boy, girl etc.) whose skills in life management are as well-developed as your own? People who don't need or want parenting--people who need to serve just because they need to serve? >>

Frankly, I'd be thrilled. This wouldn't be a person who I would consider taking as a leatherchild but someone I would evaluate as a servant.

As to your wondering about the dynamic in your own situation, perhaps it is as simple as an age difference? Or perhaps it's about the type of trust between you two. Sometimes when we feel a deep trust, there is an innocent quality to it that reminds us of children. Or perhaps, it's none of the above. For such things, you are the expert on your feelings. Close your eyes, take a moment, and ask for the answer. It may just come to you.

Catherine