hello again all...i am writing to ask if any of you have read the Dom post 'finding the real quill?'
i read it with horror as i realize i have done (am doing...grrrr) some of the things that Dr. Brame speaks about...the taken care of thing, the passive/aggressive thing, the finding a Master and treating them as a vanilla lover thing (not physically necessarily but emotionally...mentally perhaps)
while having participated in SM sex for awhile, i am relatively new to mental dynamics of a Dom/sub relationship and the 'not having control'...not that i ever really did in any traditional sense, its just that now its laid out on the table and 'real'...as Dr. Brame spoke of
this is a learning process for me and i am trying very hard but its difficult to not act out of old tapes sometimes...does anyone else have this problem and what do you do about it?
thanks
fix8ed

Being new, I hope you do not mind a comment from a novice. I believe that making that leap in your mind to truly give up all choice to your Dom is the hardest thing for anyone to do. To say it is one thing, to believe it another and to live it an even greater leap. Probably many people who think they have accomplished this really have not. I see it as the hardest challenge that I have and I wonder if I can ever completely reach that stage.

I read Gloria's post and I do agree with her.

But we must also remember, it's just as hard for a submissive to find a Dominant, that we can trust enough to give that control to.

There is always a risk for Dominants and for submissives

Steel

So much to think about here.............

Had my first-ever session this weekend, and my head is still spinning. So now I've added this thread and Dr Glory's thread to what was already careening around in there. . . . part of me wants to talk about it but part of me just wants to keep it tucked away.

One of the things that I wrestle with is the point at which we give up control. On one hand, I want to make sure I'm not holding out.........that I'm in this for the right reasons and all that................OTOH I don't want to give up too much to the wrong person just to prove myself either. I did all the right things before I played this weekend, and he did all the right things as well, so I'm OK with that. Obviously if I wasn't OK with all that I would not have played. I'm not sure I'm going to play with him again, though, and I wonder if it's because he and I didn't mesh right (did we? how would I know?) or if it's because it was not so much like I thought it would be (I mean, DAMN! THAT HURT!! I know it was supposed to, but somehow I thought I'd enjoy it more) or what..............like I said, lots to think about yet.

So I'm reading with interest even if I'm not responding much. :-)

crafty

Hi all.

i too have been reading the posts on For Dominants only and i find 'finding the real quill?' most interesting.

i may be all wet here but i sometimes wish that i could get a panel of Dominants together and do a quiz show. It seems that many of what is mentioned in that thread is on target ...... but i wonder if much of it is not due to the language barrier of this lifestyle.

i came to this lifestyle ... as i have said many times .... three years ago with absolutely no clue. i really do mean that ..... never any kinky sex or even thoughts of having any ..... no idea what BDSM was or what the word Dominant and submissive ..... Master and slave really meant in terms of ......

i read the usual books ..... Screw the Roses ..... Different Loving ..... The Beauty Trilogy ...... i visited as many web sites as i could find and i also joined Black Rose and went to the weekly meeting .... the workshop ..... the socials.

i felt as though i was in first grade again ...... no it was worse ....... more like i had just been dumped in a foreign land. Did not know the language ... Did not know the customs ..... did not know the rules ..... did not know the people.

It seemed that every time i thought "i knew" or "i understood" i did not. i can not help thinking and acting from a vanilla slant ..... i mean i have lived a vanilla life for 51 of my 54 years. and then there is the tribes so to speak.

There is no way that there is all that much continuity from group to group .... from state to state ..... from munch to munch. That only makes learning a new lifestyle even more difficult.

let's that the comment about "no Limits". i am a submissive whose level of submission is unknown to me. i have not had the experiences to determine that. i have thought about my limits quite a bit and i have to say that i am one that could almost say that i have no limits ... simply because the only thing that i am positive about is that i could be involved with children .... other than that i just do not know.

i have this vision that if i was to find the right Master then at the very least ..... i would be open to trying anything ....... and i do mean anything that would make him happy.

Now i am sure that i do not yet have a good understanding of what "anything" might be ..... but from my life base ... i can say "anything".

What is see as a problem or at least something worth considering is that lifestyler type Doms ... subs .... switches ..... and by that i mean those who have been in the lifestyle for more than a year or two ..... who have been active in meeting ..... discussing .... and exchanging thoughts with regard to the lifestyle ..... and who have always had strong or very identifiable tendencies ...... may forget what it is like to be "new" and have all that they now know to have to learn. Or maybe they have forgotten that they also looked at this lifestyle with their vanilla glasses on ..... before they got their BDSM glasses.

it is like someone who has lived their life on a farm .... and then moves to the city. ...... the adjustment is unbelievable .... not only in the surrounding but also the culture .... the language and the customs.

and Crafty .....

I'm not sure I'm going to play with him again, though, and I wonder if it's because he and I didn't mesh right (did we? how would I know?) or if it's because it was not so much like I thought it would be (I mean, DAMN! THAT HURT!! I know it was supposed to, but somehow I thought I'd enjoy it more) or what..............like I said, lots to think about yet.

that is the catch 22 about parts of this lifestyle. imo, there are two distinct things that go on ...... the first is the difference in both sexual attitudes and sexual activities and then there is also the differences in mindset.

There is NO WAY that anyone who is new can learn .... actually comprehend the totality of the emotions ... the customs or the language. i mean .... just when i think that i understand something ..... along come a sub or a Dom to blow me out of the water. i usually end up shaking my head and wondering will i ever be on the same page .... reading the same words ..... as others.

i do not know if those who have been in this lifestyle for much longer than i do ..... really see this.

"I know it was supposed to, but somehow I thought I'd enjoy it more) or what" and i do know what you mean by those words ......... there has to be more then just "I wanna try S/m sex" ..... sort of like the same type of foundation that takes a vanilla encounter to the sexual level ....... well actually i think that there needs to be a bit more.

Gee ..... i sure hope that i made some sense here

Storm

Hi friends,

Ahh, this is no nice to have other subs to talk to that are going through the same struggle as I am.

This past week Master delivered my first unpleasant punishment. It sent me in a total tailspin. I did everything I shouldn't have. After all the support I received on this board I was horrified to find out I was completely wrong. I feel like a total failure. And after reading Gloria's post "finding the real quill" I was ashamed to see so much of myself reflected.

It's so nice to finally know how to act now that I realize I'm a submissive. I finally feel as though I haver the players manual to this relationship thing. But then to *still* get it wrong. I'm just so SP3x1 in myself.

It's all a control thing. I said the words to my Master...that I gave him the control over me, but 'till this past week I don't think I understood what that meant.

I think Karen/Harold is right. Giving up control is the hardest & SP5x1 thing I've ever done. It's what I crave...but my brain is trying to SP6x1 what my soul is crying out for. And where is this sexual thrill coming from? Just discussing it with my Master makes me wet. It's all so confusing.

I'm trying to listen to my Master. To give into the surrender I desire. But it's a struggle.

It's so wonderful to have you. Thank you fix8ed for your post. Boy did I ever need it.

love, secret

hello fellow subbies (s)...

i have certainly struggled with this and posted on it a time or two myself... i'm the slave that found myself practically kicking and screaming inside at the aspect of relinquishing the most basic of control issues and yet knowing full well what i was doing... lmao... talk about confused... its like that phrase in the Metallica song.. "careful what you wish you may regret it... careful what you wish, you just might get it"...

well... the good news is this... we have been working hard at this Master/slave situation for a while now and i can say with much relief, its gets easier to let go of my old ways and embrace my new direction each day that passes... that is not to say that i don't have moments where i feel frustrated and bitchy about the whole thing.. i mean i am human... but i have also become more at ease with the restrictions and in fact, find myself craving direction when Master is too busy to offer it... and its not like i don't know how to direct myself, i mean i am a 43 (almost 44) year old woman who has a fairly intelligent head on my shoulders and my share of common sense... but damn if Master is really busy and doesn't have time to lay out chores and expectations i find myself somewhat lost... heck i thought i would be rejoicing in my moments of freedom and yet i find myself just the opposite... its very strange... i think it has come to a point that i need His approval and appreciation much like i need food and water... lol

what i see most is this... its is a day by day process... building and developing... exploring new directions and pushing for unexpected limits... what our Master and slave relationship started out as has been refined and continues to do so as we grow together... i do find that when i get to a place that i find confusing or i feel myself resisting i take the time to talk with Master or write down what it is i think is mentally and emotionally going on and seek His input... it makes me feel better and it also gives Him precious insight into a very complicated yet loving slave...

sure its a struggle... but if it were not, i doubt it would mean as much... its the journey, not the destination that is the reward...

take care all...
renee'

**********
i felt as though i was in first grade again ...... no it was worse ....... more like i had just been dumped in a foreign land. Did not know the language ... Did not know the customs ..... did not know the rules ..... did not know the people.
**********

BOY DO I KNOW HOW THIS FEELS!!!!!!!!!

I've decided that I'm not going to play with this particular person again, mainly because I don't think he understands how much I was hurt (physically, not mentally--that is all my own) by the encounter. I'm still not sure WHAT happened though, and how do I figure out what is going on if I don't jump in again. What did I do wrong that I wasn't happy with my first session. . . did I not ask enough questions? Did I not ask the right questions? Did I not stop him soon enough. . .and again how would I have known that x number of lashes with a riding crop would be stinging on Saturday (this I can deal with) but leave me barely able to sit down on Sunday? (Cuz that was NOT what I wanted, but I didn't communicate that, so I feel at fault there.) I have absolutely NO frame of reference here, and I feel like I'm trying to swim in mud. I can't develop a frame of reference without jumping in, but jumping in a few more times like this weekend could be detrimental to my health. Surely there's a balance?? How do I find it? Right now I just wanna crawl under a rock and forget the word kinky, but I know that will work for about two days and I'll be back thinking about it again.

Sorry to be so depressing but I'd appreciate any input anyone has here. Hope I'm making sense--I'm tired.

crafty

Hello to all,
Thank you for responding to this topic. I am so glad to have a place to come too and be able to express some of my feelings and thoughts.
Its really good to have other peoples insights and ideas on various topics, as I get so confused and conflicted battling all the engrained stereotypes and ideals I have learned in my life. They never really worked and certainly didn't feel right, this feels right but I'm finding is definitely work.
Its also very playful, wonderful and exciting, but there is exhaustive soul searching that has to be done at times. The interactions can be intense and stir up all kinds of emotions, thoughts and fears that I never knew were lurking, or did suspect were lurking, but was afraid to see and BDSM brings them to the surface sometimes. My brain then does a knee-jerk reaction thing from all my 'vanilla' learning thus throwing me into further turmoil because it does not mix with the wonderful feelings and insights that I have just experienced. I don't know if I'm making any sense...
Storm...I laughed my ass off when I read you have always thought it would be nice to get a panel of Dom's together and do a quiz show...who gets to ask the questions? :)
Crafty...I laughed at you comment too...DAMN THAT HURT...I've thought the same thing...there are things that you do even when you don't like them and they don't necessarily feel 'good' in an erotic sense but you do them because He/She likes them...and there are things you will not do because you can't or don't like them...you don't have to like everything and everyone...ever see 'Runaway Bride'...gotta find out what kind of EGGS you like...:)
Secret...forgive me, but what does SP3x1...SP6x1 etc mean? I am unfamiliar with that abbreviation.

always,
fix8ed

crafty .......

i sure am not one to be of much help here ........ but there is one thing that i am now very certain of ......... there is no frame of reference. i know i am sure a lot of help now aren't i.

you were one place and he was another ......... and depending on whether he is actually a Top in Doms clothes or a Novice Dom in self training ...... a player ...... is sort of up in the air.

Of one thing i feel rather sure of ....... he is NOT a seasoned DOM ... in the sense of what i believe all too many submissives define a Dominant as. There is so much miscommunication .... misunderstanding and
definition breakdown .... that i am surprised that some of the more experienced do not see this as a problem.

although you may not want to scene with him again ...... if you have had good open conversation until this point ...... tell hem exactly what you wrote here. IMHO ...... what you experienced was to be expected and in many ways it should have been anticipated by the Dom that you were meeting .... that is if he himself had some experience.

You see crafty ......... how can you understand and communicate a level of pain when you have nothing to gauge it by. How can you really know when to safeword if you want so desperately to be seen as a potential submissive for a Dominant that you are meeting for the first time ..... that you can not begin to get into what is happening because you are too unsure of how to behave ... how far to go .... are you just wimping out .... what will he think ..... .

This might sound like a totally off the wall idea ........ but you know ......... there should be a primer of sorts for both the Novice sub meeting a Dom for the first time or a new Dom and a primer for the Dominant who is dealing with the Novice submissive.

Sort of like ............. if no experience with scening then the pain threshold has to be determined first ... and by first.... i do not mean by scening but by experimenting. sort of like a show and feel type of thing. i will say that was one of the many advantages of the Black Rose workshops. It was a great chance to experience a sensation ...... but on a very light level ....... with no need to consider safewording because the purpose was to introduce you to things that you had no real clue about. Sort of like mental and physical preparation for the real thing. yeah ......... i do sound like a "airhead" i know.

But seriously crafty ........... how are we supposed to relate to any of it in the beginning. i am sure that if someone took the time .......... a point of reference for the sake of understand all of the newness could somehow be put together ....... but then how would it be made available to the novice or almost novice.

i am here and will try my best to share all of my experiences ... as few as they are ...... and most of my thoughts and confusions and maybe together we can all come closer to where we want to be.

one final thing ...... and i believe that it is all too often overlooked ......... depth of relationship makes a world of difference. a novice who is beginning her journey ....... or the very inexperienced sub who is getting ready to take that second plunge into self discovery in this BDSM lifestyle will NOT and i mean NOT be able to determine the appropriate behavior or extent to plunge in from those who are involved in a stable and committed relationship of another submissive.

What is there for them that is not for the novice or relatively inexperienced sub just venturing out to explore ... trust ..... commitment ...... understanding .... honestly ..... love. none of that can really be in place "for the most part" in the beginning of ........ and therefore the "tapes of old" will play.

ok ...... i have run my mouth way too much ... sorry.

love ya all

Storm

Crafty,
What Storm said about experimenting to find one's pain threshold as a first step, that's the very BASIC thing that should've happened. I mean, if this guy just went and hit you and didn't care or notice what effect it was having on you, that's a crime. Is that what it felt like? I hope not.

A more experienced Top or Dom might not do pain-calibration tests first per se, but incorporate light play into erotic sensuality, feeling the other one out, then perhaps add sharper and harder sensations, constantly building up the submissive's desire for more. When everything clicks for me, I want more, I need more, I fear it but I need it, maybe I get it and OH it hurts, it hurts so bad, so good, I want more (repeat until exhaustion and ecstasy overwhelm the cycle). I'm a masochist though & there are lots of submissives that simply aren't masochists.

When I was just a newbie myself, I learned that sexual arousal and erotic pain/suffering are linked for me. The more sexually aroused I was, the greater the pain I was able to enjoy and vice versa. If a particular sensation exceeded my threshold by a bit, it just made me more aroused & hence raised my threshold. But if a particular sensation exceeded it by a lot, it wasn't fun at all. I also found that if I was stressed or otherwise unhappy about things, that my reactions were different. Also it seems to depend on my menstrual cycle, sometimes I'm really really sensitive and it makes it hard to get into that flying feedback cycle. Emotions play a huge role too-- trust and feeling dominated and surrendering, those are all necessary for me and the stronger those feelings, the better. But like Storm said, these things take time to grow :)

Secret, you had some misgivings about the punishment you received. Was it odd, i don't think so. Like everyone else here has said giving up complete control can very difficult. What i admired was that you were able to share your concerns with your Master, instead of keeping them inside and letting them fester over time. In my humble opinion, submission is an ongoing learning process. You can't expect to "get it" from day one, and even though it would be helpful, we can't read Doms minds. Secret, the important thing here is that you caught your error and learned from it. You are very fortunate to have a Master that will work with you on your submission. i just wish Doms appreciated what we go though a bit more.

You both have said a lot of important and worthwhile things here. . .

Storm.........as far as talking to him, I haven't really had a chance to. We've emailed a few times back and forth and I've brought it up, but his response has been minimal and he's made no attempt to discuss it with me. THAT was the thing that made me decide "no more with this one." It wasn't that things didn't go as I expected because, as we've noted, I didn't really know WHAT to expect. The thing that is bothering me the most is that after it all was over, I was left to my own to sort it out. And here I am, a week later, still trying to sort. (What WOULD I do without you all?!?!?!) The times we talked before, we both were looking for someone that we could et to know and potentially develop a relationship with. . . perhaps I didn't meet his expectations either (LOL a blessing in disguise!) or perhaps he just doesn't think the connection afterward is important. . . who the hell knows. I just know that if I'm going to do This with someone I want it to be someone I have some sort of relationship with. I know I always say how much I like recreational sex, and that's true, but I can't imagine recreational Kinky sex. Hehehehe I'm so picky.

Ketzele, no it didn't feel at the time like he didn't notice what effect it was having on me. In fact, one of the things I will give him credit for is either stopping or changing up just at the point where I was ready to stop him. You're absolutely right about arousal and pain--it's the same for me, I knew that already with some other things. (My regular fuckbuddy loves to nibble and bite on me, but he knows that he can't really *bite* me until I'm totally aroused and other things are going on. . . ) That is, IMO, part of what went wrong. I wasn't aroused through most of it, and I really wasn't at a point where I could get myself aroused. Fucking seemed a secondary point to him, and it was the main point to me. (And you know, we talked about that too.............but what came out in conversation and what came out in the bedroom were different.)

It doesn't help at this moment that my life is in complete upheaval. I've pretty much decided to leave this alone for a while and get some other things square, and then come back to it when I feel like I'm ready to address it again.

Thanks to you all for listening and helping me sort things out

crafty

crafty............

****We've emailed a few times back and forth and I've brought it up, but his response has been minimal and he's made no attempt to discuss it with me. THAT was the thing that made me decide "no more with this one." It wasn't that things didn't go as I expected because, as we've noted, I didn't really know WHAT to expect. The thing that is bothering me the most is that after it all was over, I was left to my own to sort it out.******

now i am sure that i am going to get my butt in trouble here but ............ geezs, i seem to do that a lot <g>

Do i ever know where you are coming from on this one ... and what you have experienced is a very good reason to not want to go further with this "DOM ?????"
Unfortunately, is you are anything like me ..... the experience .. or rather the fact that you were left to "sort it out on your own" is going to bother you until you "understand"

you see .........i think that what has just happened is that you expected the aftercare to include conversation and discussion ... i mean is that not what we hear at every turn .......... that this should happen and that should happen ......... except .... more times then not is doesn't ........ and we are left to wonder ""WHY?". and a big why that is ..... Was it something that we did ...... was there something about us that he /she didn't like ...... were we expecting too much ..... is this something that we should know .... and on and on and on it goes. i have to say that the disappointment of this lifestyle is like the disappointment in life .... you go into something with an idea of what is to happen .... how the other is going to act ... the "rules" of the game so to speak and guess what ...... just as in the nilla world ....... there are more jerks and players then real people ....... but we have already given something that is uniquely ours ..... a combination of our soul and our sex ....

i mean this was more than just a pain question crafty .... it was something that touched you deeper than just "how much it hurt" i am going to go out on a limb here and say that had their been conversation on his part ... if there had been concern to know how you felt ... what your thoughts were ..... what your emotions were from this "DOM ??????" ........ the question of "too painful" would never have reared it's ugly head. Instead, you would have felt the pain the next day and smiled to yourself as you remembered the experience .... the words .... the care ... the concern and most of all ........ the respect with which you were treated. You would have had little doubt or concern as to if he knew that your submission was what you offered ... to the extent that you could because you wanted to please him.

i would also venture to say that perhaps what is bothering you the most is that it appears as though he took for "GRANTED" what was offered .... thinking it his "RIGHT" with no obligation on his part to make what had been conversation between the two of you a reality.

Now if i am all wrong here than i am truly sorry but ........ i have been there .... felt that .... thought that ....... and it is by far the depths of a hell i am not all that anxious to revisit.

Opps ........... it seems that i should have read the rest of your post crafty ........ well maybe some of this fits and maybe none of it does.

i would like to add a comment about the arousal part ... and i am not one who really should i guess cause that is a "biggie" problem for me. Being short on experience in this area i do know that pain does in fact increase my arousal ... but that can not even begin to happen if my head is not is the right place. And by the right place, i guess that i mean , that place that says i am not just another "kink" partner, No i do not mean commitment here or that he has to vow to love me forever ... what i mean is that in the conversations before the meeting ... in his actions when we first meet ....... i need to feel that there is something "special" about me that is unlike anything that he may have or felt with the others he has Dommed. It may be no more then my smile ... or the way i say a word .. or maybe the way i blush at the drop of a hat ... but there is something and i can feel and sense that there is.

ok now i be quiet

Storm

Storm and Crafy...and all others who have expressed themselves within this thread...

You don't KNOW how much your words have hit home for me...I met a man who is a Dom and I became very involved with him...I am struggling so much 'alone' with some of what you both talked about because it has happened, is happening to me at this moment. We entered into an agreement and discussed many things prior to our entering into a Dom/sub relationship.
  
However, as I have very limited experience with the mental aspects of the BDSM lifestyle, I did not take into consideration subtle (and some extreme) reacts, emotions, and thoughts I would experience with this particular person.
  
I did not consider the 'aftercare' part, I did not consider the 'need to FEEL that there is something 'special' about me that is unlike anything that he may have felt with others he has Dommed'...that was wonderful Storm, becuz I am going thru that exact thing right now. I would not be feeling as insecure, afraid and needy as I am right now, if I were feeling secure in his love, affection and his thinking of me as 'special'. Not that I have to be the one and only, only that what I offered is valued and has meaning and not some way to pass the time until the 'real deal' (my words) comes along.

I got an unexpected, painful, hurtful realization that I am not that 'special' and it stung to my core. Now, I am not with some shred of self-esteem (although I do suffer from terminal insecurity and self-doubt more of the time then less, something I am constantly working on...you'd think I be farther along in that area than my 39yrs would show)...and I reacted both positively and negatively. This has been a real learning experience for me.
  
My confusion has been compounded when I kicked into 'what did I do wrong?' I gave of myself like I have NEVER given to anyone, and I mean NEVER...mentally, soulfully and physically and I wonder....so many questions I can't even begin to write them out...back and forth...back and forth

I have been 'lurking' around here for a few months but only recently felt I could chime in...besides, I have no where to go...and this place has helped me in so many ways...I feel safe and so many of my thoughts, feelings and mental state either get re-enforced for the positive or force me into ponderings that help me to see things in ways I had not considered before...for that I thank you all so much

I wish I could explain how many questions have come up for me...Is he being a Dom the way he is behaving? Or someone who was just playing and I got burned? Am I being someone who is just playing and reacting with a 'vanilla' mind set? Or am I really a submissive who is just hurting and may have chosen poorly who to give myself over too, like I have done in the past with 'vanilla' relationships...only this hurts more than anything I have EVER experienced in any other relationship and I know its somewhat related to the BDSM dynamics (which have not been present this much before). There are so many more questions and so much more to learn...

I've taken up a lot of space here but I really had to get some of this out...I don't know if I have made any sense or added anything more than anyone else couldn't have said better, but I just had to express myself somewhere...my journal entries only get to hear my own mind and sometimes is a lonely, confused place to be :)

fix8ed

Storm, darling, no need in my book for you to be quiet.

You're right, the pain would have been *less* of an issue (although it still would have been one I believe, but one I overcame) if the other things had been there. I felt comfortable during our conversations that aftercare would be a big part of playing with him. . . we really did talk about that a good bit. And looking back, I can see that maybe he did what he felt was appropriate aftercare at the scene. Perhaps I should have asked for more? I don't know, because at the time I was just ready to be done and to go home. I wanted a cozy chair and a nap more than I wanted to be talked to, cuddled, or anything else from anyone else.

But beyond doing the same things--talking, throwing out examples, asking questions, reading body language and tone, etc etc etc--that I did with this guy, how am I going to know next time that I'm not getting into the same situation? Because even the best of us can only tell so much about a person until we get into a situation. . . . well you see my dilemma. *sigh*

Oh well.........live and learn I guess.

Anyway Storm I see no reason for you to get in trouble--you were completely dead on in what you said.

hugs
crafty

I don't know that I can offer anything more to this discussion, but what the hey, I'll take a shot and hope something somewhat profound spills out of my head...

I think that maybe the Dom you played with was more interested in giving pain than getting reactions from you. Can you see the distinction? If you hope to have better experiences to reinforce your connection with pain and pleasure (so that you CAN play with someone like him and enjoy it), I think you really need to find someone who is very much interested manipulating your reactions, instead of a whip or crop or whatever. Perhaps you should be looking for someone who is more into head-games than particular ways of dispensing pain.

Now I'm not necessarily saying you need to seek out verbal abuse or degradation (unless you like that idea.. I know _I_ do! ;-), but if they are going to have a lot of fun making you anticipate the blows, if they can convince you (just a little), that they can make you feel however they want... then you'll find that whatever sadism they use on you will be more fulfilling.

Now, I am very new to this myself, and have just begun explore this lifestyle with my wife, but I have noticed a few things recently:

In the past, when she has taken her crop to me, it has just hurt, but the anticipation of the blows aroused me enough to endure. Now she's learning to play with my head a little more, and it makes a WORLD of difference. For the first time, her beating actually aroused me, and I found myself beginning to enter a sub-space. It's kind of like my first few times of discovering the total relaxation of meditation, and I'm very excited that I'm making this progress. Let me qualify that her worst beating never left me more than a little sore for an hour, and she has yet to leave any welts on me that lasted for more than a couple of minutes. I think what you received was too harsh for a beginner. I don't think I could have endured that, and I do find the scenario immediately arousing.

Well, there you have it. My novice opinion on something I've never witnessed outside of my own bedroom. I hope some part of it helped.

^---^
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Omega,
*********************
I think that maybe the Dom you played with was more interested in giving pain than getting reactions from you. Can you see the distinction?
*********************

Yes of course I do and I believe you are right in that.

Something that just crossed my mind (I'm sitting here, at his request, finally doing the "what I liked and what I didn't like" list about the whole deal. The fact that he asked makes me feel a bit better, so we're talking more, but I still have heavy duty doubts and am expressing those to him now. We'll see. . .) was that I didn't feel like it mattered if it was me, Shannon, sweet, smart, spunky girl, or someone else in those handcuffs. (ANYONE else!) So when I read your comment, my brain said Ah HA!

I always thought I was into the more sensual, what-does-this-feel-like side of this. That's how I am with vanilla sex for sure, and since most of my experience is there. . . . . well you know. But now that I look at this a bit more, and think back to things that have really turned me on at points in the past, I realize that you're probably right--I need someone who will play with me more and the toys less. ;-) My regular fuckbuddy, who has no interest in bdsm, gets me to do and SAY things when we're in bed that are so completely different from my rest-of-the-world persona and I totally dig it. That is the aspect of fucking him that's different from anyone else, and that is the thing that makes me look back and smile a couple days later.

So, if I'm so crafty, why didn't I realize that before now? *giggle* Oh, so much to learn about myself and about all this.............

Thanks Omega you made some very good points. I hope this makes sense, cuz I'm pretty tired and going off to sleep now. :-)

Hugs to all
crafty

Hi subbies,

I wish you all could come over to talk and have coffee!! When I read your posts I wish I could express to you my thoughts right there and then.

Crafty, maybe he's just scared....if he acts like he cares then he wont seem like a Dom. Maybe he's buying into a persona he *thinks* he should assume. Could you explain to him in generic terms that a sub needs aftercare. It would be "un-Dom-like" to control you like that....and then leave you to fall/crash from sub space all by yourself. IMHO it's part of the Dom's responsibility to provide the security and boundaries (I can't think of a better word....containment maybe?)to help you come back down, and to process the experience. If he truly wants to dominate you he must know what's on your mind. Don't assume that because your the submissive you can't teach him a thing or two. Even if it doesn't go any further between you two, you owe it to your sub sisters out there to help him become a better Dom by learning through his mistakes.

 Remember a confident submissive is much more desirable than a insecure submissive. :-)

love, secret

Help! I don't know if this is appropriate or not...but would anyone be willing to chat privately? I am sooooo lost. I don't want to go into all the details on this thread as I feel it would take up too much space and time but if anyone would be willing to help me with some questions, insight and input, as I am so very confused right now, I really would be ever so grateful.
If no one here is able to do so I understand, but perhaps someone can direct me to someplace I can go?
Thank you so much,
fix8ed

fix8ed,

I cant answer for the others, but IMO if you have something that bothers you, and you want input from other subbie type people, then here is *absolutely* the appropriate place for it. As for taking up too much air time - start your own thread, and take up as much of it as you want <g>. Personally I have found the threads that people share the murky inner swirlings of their heart and soul the most interesting / educational threads there are. Even if I dont respond myself. And frankly, if people don't relate to your stuff they have the option of skipping that thread, yah?

And just maybe a few opinions / experiences will be more useful to you than one, and quite possibly will be useful to a few dozen lurkers out there too. So I for one look forward to hearing from you soon.

cheers

Jules

A quick note...I want to thank everyone who has responded to my plea for help. Everyone has been great and the response I received was unexpected and touched me greatly.
Thank you all...
fix8ed

Hello everyone, I am new to this site :) I have read a lot of the messages and postings on the boards. I have been very intrigued by all of what I have read. I must say I love this site.

I do have a question for everyone. I would love to know everyone's feelings on physical punishment. My Master and I have discussed this.. and I would love to know the feelings of other subs. I think it will help me to better understand it in the D/s lifestyle.

I am a new sub. I have a wonderful Master so far. He has never and (with all my heart) I do believe He never will hurt me physically. I would be most gracious to get some insights from everyone.

thank you all,
BBrighteyes <o>

i'm sure that some of the excellent people on this site will be able to discuss physical punishment much better than i. It does not have to be physical. Your Master will need to punish you at times to correct you or help you become a better sub. That could be any number of things such as sitting in a corner, go to your room and deny you something you wanted to do, etc. you didn't mentioned bondage. Your Master can put you in bondage for a period of time as a punishment or perform some special task that you do not like to do, - - and on and on. Don't rule out the potential of a spanking. You may want to try it some time.

There are so many ways that are not "physical" to punish. Depends on the infraction. Just recently I was again late for our Saturday night date, and we missed a movie he wanted to see. I wasn't sorry, I didnt care to see the movie, then I pouted since he wouldn't buy me a coffee afterwards. I had to walk the last 4 blocks in my thigh highs and dress/heels - and then when I got home he had me give him a complete massage, feed him dessert and then he tied me up and left me there alone in the home office for what seemed like forever while he watched tv and read. It is torture to do that to me since I only have that one night a week with him, hours spent doing things I hated
once he had me pay for my gas, and lunches all week with coins vs dollars or atm/visa etc, since I messed up the checking account and didnt' stick to my budget.

He allows me a $10 lee-way on the checkbook, but it was $100 mistake I never made again.

Oh Kate can I relate to that! I have recently learned a hard lesson with regard to my finances. I spend money way too easily and I am on a strict spending restriction imposed my Michael. Because I spend on things that I really dont need and don't save, I've had to go without my manicure and pedicure at the salon and learn to do it myself. Also I've had to reduce the frequency with which I visit my hairdresser and I can only eat out after church on Sunday every three weeks.
Recently I decided I "needed" to rebel and spent 300.00 "unauthorized" dollars!! Michael was surprisingly tolerant giving me a 10.00 allowance for the week as a result. But, as it turned out, I forgot that my property tax was due today..........and it coincided with my rent! I ended up with a hole in my checkbook wide enough to drive my car through! I have received my just desserts.........and learned a hard lesson as well. When He finds out about this who knows what He'll do! :-)

I hate keeping up with my money.

I use to balance millions of dollars a month to the penny and can't keep up with my own. It sucks!

Hello,

I have waited a long time to respond on this subject. I am not so sure anyone would wish to hear what I have to say on this matter. I understand about growth and everyone is different and there are different circumstances for everything. However I clearly see something that bothers me a little.

Once again I stress that everyone is different and does things differently. I do not judge anyone's preference. I am just me =)

Sir Draco does not impose physical punishment too often...back in the days when we first began exploring the lifestyle....I thought he was not Dominant enough because he did not physically punish me for every little thing....I was purposely acting like a brat because I craved the physical punishment. Well through my experience I have learned much about the Dominant mind.

One...in most cases the Dominant does enjoy taking care of his submissive. In return he desires for himself to be taken care of. He does not desire a submissive who he constantly has to tend over. Administer punishment over for the rest of his life.

A Dominant who is a player would enjoy this personality immensely...but a serious Dom desiring a serious relationship does not admire these qualities.

two...the whole purpose of submission is just that....being submissive to your Mistress or Master. It is not about how far you can push him or her or how far can I go to piss them off so they will punish me. I understand that there is a child like state within this whole punishment thing and acting up and rebelling. However, I do not believe that this is a good quality that they enjoy.

To tell you the truth...this might be hard to swallow...but it does not matter what he asks me to do....there is nothing I hate that he desires from me. I grew to love doing things for him. I find pleasure in comforting him and being what he desires me to be.

I will admit we have an advantage over most...he loves everything about me but there were things he has changed as well...that has made me even better than I ever was.

 I understand we all screw up and make mistakes...but to me the worse punishment is the look upon his face when he is disappointed in me. He know that I am so submissive to him and have given so much that he does not need to physically punish me. Even though he enjoys it...we will be playful at times and I will still be a lil bratty and bold but he loves that about me. However, I do not push buttons that I know will piss him off or disappoint him.

This complex relationship is about give and take from both sides......neither is selfish or self serving....it is a circle completed within love.

*~dawn~*

Hi All,

I must admit that after three years in a TPE, and now having a few months break in relationships, I have been able to reflect, grow independently and personally. All of this means that I am a much better submissive now, in that I know more of what I want, am able to express it clearly, and be a better partner to my Dominant.

I have a couple of Dominant friends, and have watched their search for submissives, and it amazes me when a submissive immediately wants to scene with them on the first date. I have witnessed submissives that are talking to several Dominants, and their way of picking a Dominant to serve and partner with, is to scene with each of them, and decide who was best.

Now, in my minimal experience in the sexual, sensual realm of a relationship, that has always improved over time and knowledge of each other... the first time was never the best. Also, I have always thought of the sexual aspects of a D/s only a part of the total, not the all deciding factor.

Well, I usually tell my Dominant friends when they ask my opinion regarding a submissive's behaviors, to look for someone with whom you have that wonderful chemistry with and one that is well grounded, has a deep understanding of her submissiveness and doesn't just want to judge them on a sexual act.

That's my two cents... glad to see all of your writings again.

Wildflower

'dawn'
just wanted to say i really like what you had to say. i'm in a new (two mths) Dom/sub relationship and its all i've ever wanted.
 
i started this thread......long time ago now......and am very happy to announce that i have found what i've been looking for and its wonderful, exciting and making me look at many things in a new way.
its great to be 'in love' and to have it returned with equal feeling. its wonderful to have it be a Dom/sub relationship and i'm trying hard to let him teach me what he wants and needs from me.

its amazing to me how well he reads me and knows, he just knows, what is going on with me....i've never had that before. i don't expect him to be a mind reader but i am very appreciative that he is in tune enough to understand and know (without me explaining every detail) what is going on with me mentally and emotionally.

i'm happier than i've ever been in a relationship and its just beginning. i just need to get over 'my' insecurities and bullshit and things will improve a great deal.

just my opinion,
fix8ed

fix8ed

smiling sweetly to you.......we all have been down that path.......and it is not everywhere you are able to find answers to difficult things in question....but I have found so much on this site......I am truely happy you are finding your way to self discovery and it only gets better.....if you allow it.

*~dawn~*