Posted by: nightheron2

Some people want BDSM to gain acceptance in the mainstream. Others like the idea of BDSM being something that is wicked and counter to conventional society.

So, which would you prefer: do you want BDSM to become a conventional part of everyday society, or do you PREFER to dwell in the shadows?

UMMMMMMMMMM
That is a good question ...... and me thinks that i would like it to stay somewhat in the shadows. Tis not because i am ashamed ... tis not because i do not want to discuss BDSM with those who might have and interest ...... it is because there will always be a certain group who will be disgusted by this and who will go to any lengths to cast those involved in their personal hell.

There will always be those who are looking for a reason to bad together to "Rid the World Of EVIL" and to them we would be evil.

imho ...... cyber land has given way to many positive learning opportunities for many but it has also brought to this lifestyle many who have no clue and view much of what they see and chat about as nothing more than a game ..... and a game that can have serious consequences.

i believe that we have our share of weirdos ...... and unstable players ...... and i do not want to invite the world in so that number grows.

i would like to educate ...... but i am not quite ready to be burned at the cross.

Due to some rather strange circumstances ...... my involvement in BDSM is very well know by all too many people who know me ....... and i will say that the consequences of that knowledge has been very costly at times and continues to be that way.

imho, it is a risk ..... to try for the mainstream ... for it is not as one would imagine. i feel that it would have to be a united effort and there are far too many off shoots of this lifestyle that would need to be united.

i know ...... here i am ..... a liberal and i want to hide. Well maybe it is because i do not want what i feel is something quite unique ..... levels above what i have experienced ...... and extremely intense and spiritual to varying degrees marred by the mainstream. i do not want it mangled .... soiled .... manipulated by the media and the ignorant.

It seems that we humans have a talent for destroying the precious and rare ......

Perhaps the tapes of the past are playing now ..... but

Storm

To Nightheron and Storm,
I think that whether or not we like it, BDSM is being dragged into the mainstream. If nothing else, the "look" is being pretty widely adopted.
I personally think that more acceptance is good, but agree with Storm that the mainstreaming of BDSM leads to a lot of uneducated people who just want sex and don't care a lot about their partners or ethics in general. :(

Do i want BDSM to become a conventional part of everyday society, or do i prefer to dwell in the shadows?

hmmmmmmm. No, and no. Although it might be easier if it were an acceptable part of society, "conventional" implies some general standard. And that means (at least in my connotations of the word) that other lifestyles would then be unconventional. i always vote for acceptance, but seldom for conventionality - variety, rather than conformity.

As for being in the shadows, i hate it. But i do it, not because i think it's "dirty" or "sick", but because others do. i have been long convinced that if someone wants to cause you trouble, they'll find a way to do it. And, since i can't for the life of me seem to remain merely invisible to people in general (which would be my preference), and since i have a personality which some find threatening, and since i have so much to lose, i'll stay hidden. i've said it before, and i'll no doubt say it again: Society is fickle, and i don't trust its acceptance. i'll come out in the open when i feel i can do so without hurting the ones i love.

Peace
firebaby

Opalescent Dreams .....

i agree that in certain areas of this lifestyle ..... dress .... role - play of a BDSMer for the entertainment of the general public ....... and even the tendency for a bit of "kinky" sex are to a degree being openly adopted ...... but i feel that it is more for the Shock aspect then anything else.

If that is as far as it goes ...... that is fine with me. i too do not like the hiding ....... but i need to make a living and i enjoy my grandsons ...... so conformity on the surface is a necessary evil.

i am however becoming my own person more and more each day ....... and amazingly ..... that is giving me a strength that is soothing

Storm

Hi All-
  I agree that a lot of folks play with the styles and work kink into humor, but I do not think BDSM is close to acceptance. It would be nice to be "out of the shadows". but as FB said, anyone with a strong personality will take flack from time to time for being who they are anyway. I think there is slightly more acceptance than there was, but being into BDSM is still something seen as deviant that can result in loss of children and jobs etc. It would be great if it were accepted as one more way people express their sexuality, and that society was more tolerant of differences in general. It would be cool if BDSM became mainstream enough so that folks could be who they are, but not so mainstream as to become commercial in a vulgar way. But I agree with FB again in that I also do not trust the momentary acceptance of society....W

I really don't want it to come out of the shadows any more than it has already....it is becoming sterile....but that genie is out of the bottle now and I suspect that getting it back in would be impossible. While I suppose it would be nice to have all the laws on our side, to not have our children and jobs at risk, what are we willing to do about it? I mean, we all continue to hear about we want this or we moan about that, but what are we, in any type of numbers doing about it? I ask because of a truism I was given long ago that still seems to be true.....wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which fills up faster.

Justin Medlin

Dear Storm,
I agree with you. Teens and twenty-somethings, especially, seem to be really getting into the "look" of BDSM, but may or may not actually act on that look in their personal lives.
I don't feel that I have to play dress-up or carry a whip in public in order to feel accepted. How my partner and my friends feel about me is more important. Generally, as long as no-one is hassling me, I don't care about how the general public feels about the real me...my public face is good enough. I don't really wear a mask, and I'm pretty much *ME* regardless of the circumstances. However, I don't want most people to know *anything* about my sex life. I choose to share a bit here, in anonymity. I have a couple of dear friends who I can be completely honest with, and a brand-new partner. So far, we've talked a lot, and he's very much accepting of who I am.
I'm very glad that you are able to be yourself now. I think that this divorce has been a very good thing for you. I hope that you come to realise how wonderful you are, and that you find someone who is worthy of your love and submission. :)

This question made me really think about the depth of my deepest thoughts. A part of me wishes for the world to know about what I am involved in, for the sake of it's eternal beauty and power it has over me. Then there is the side of me that totally agrees with Storm. It is so true how we would be eaten alive. The sad part is...for the rest of eternity it will always be like this....

Those who do not understand what it is we are really about are those who will make us suffer for what we believe in.

In a perfect world everyone could be and show their true self but unfortunately the world is not perfect except for the times we spend within our own minds being and feeling the truth behind the dungeon walls.

So sad how we struggle for freedom and to fly to the ends of the earth only to find that we are still trapped within the realm of darkness.

*~Dawn~*

Storm said:
i know ...... here i am ..... a liberal and i want to hide. Well maybe it is because i do not want what i feel is something quite unique ..... levels above what i have experienced ...... and extremely intense and spiritual to varying degrees marred by the mainstream. i do not want it mangled .... soiled .... manipulated by the media and the ignorant.

This hit a chord with me on the assimilation of lesbianism into the mainstream. Now that there is a lesbian on every corner, the topic is brought up much more often, and people don't have any tact about asking all sorts of REALLY personal questions. On the other hand, people coming out today at least have role models that are attractive and successful. It's a mixed blessing at best.
I can just imagine the BDSM update of the sitcom "The Odd Couple."
:::Shudder:::

we look just like anybody else....

we already are mainstream, because we aren't living cloistered lives in isolation.

a girl thinks that if we are seen as complete people, we will be assured that stereotypes will be eroded, and that has to be a good thing.

and if we chose to keep some aspects of our lives private, then we do so only because what we share is personal, not public.

silence = death.

a girl will always stand in the light, because innocence is ashamed of nothing.

Should BDSM go mainstream? Well, yes and no. While i think it's great that people that have sadomasochistic feelings and a genuine interest in BDSM have better and easier ways to express their feelings to other people (thank you internet!), i know it will probably bring about the usuall asortment of "moralists" decrying this new threat to their children.

Still, S/Mers that are scared stiff about the invasion of their way of life by clueless people, movie stars, and Dr. Drew and Adam are probably overeacting a little. In American culture especially, the people are pretty fickle about the lastest craze. Anybody remember how long Madonnas love affair with sadomasochism lasted? Yeah, BDSM chic might become the in thing for awhile: leather will be the lastest fashion statement, people will step over their own mothers for a brand new dog collar, no city will be trendy without a leather bar attended by a-list celebs, mothers will write angry letters to newspapers saying how nine inch nails turned them to this perverted lifestyle.

In the end, however, after a few fluff news stories, hollywood galas, and high profile prodom busts, the public will lose interest. And then it will go back to the fringes, where i think it is better suited for.

duanedevils

You said ..... "Still, S/Mers that are scared stiff about the invasion of their way of life by clueless people"

True but there is also the impact that these clueless people can have.

i have said once and i will say again ....... i KNOW ..... first hand exactly how vindictive ... cruel ... self serving ..... ignorant and threatened people can feel and be when confronted with this lifestyle.

i have lived and continue to live that scenario and the choices that continually appear. i am fortunate in that i am a loner by nature ... as well as a survivor. i know the tricks to surviving and i do not NEED to be surrounded by people.

These two things about me have allowed me to continue to explore this lifestyle ... how i fit ... who i am .... and still remain in the world in which i have always lived.

****" i know it will probably bring about the usual assortment of "moralists" decrying this new threat to their children."

From first hand experience ... it brings about much ... much ... more.

It is not just the moralists ...... for the moralists come from a place that they do believe in.

It is the others ....... the ones who see it as ammunition to use against people who threaten them .... who have always threatened them but who had "no secrets" that they could find to "trash" them with. It is the ones who, themselves have secrets that could be used against them and fear exposure .... who need the power of something as "evil" as BDSM to cast the spotlight in the direction of another ... it is those who NEED to manipulate others ... but first must find that "leverage" to do so. Those are the ones who i fear the most for i have seen ... felt .... and experienced them.

Does the fact that i seek to learn more about this lifestyle make me "evil"? Does the fact that i see and identify as a submissive make me "crazy"? Does the fact that the basics philosophy of the lifestyle .... HONESTY .... RESPECT ..... COMMUNICATION .... TRUST and TRUSTWORTHINESS ..... CONSENSUAL ..... LOYALTY ..... and OPENNESS .... called to me because it is what i have yearned for but very rarely experienced make me a "coward" and afraid to face "life" and be a responsible and accountable individual? Does being involved in this lifestyle mean that i have poor judgment ... no morals ... am unsavory ... am a corrupting factor in the lives of those i love? Does my involvement in this lifestyle mean that i can not think sanely .... can not function in society ..... will endanger those who come in contact with me?

What has been taken from me indicates that this is so ... what has been given to me through self truth ... through new experiences .... through new insights says that i am the same as i have been but with a freedom that i have never known and an understanding and acceptance of me that was never there before.

The pluses outweigh the minuses but i grow tired of the battles ... of the defending ... of the attempts at explaining ... of the harsh words and the silent stares .... of the vindictiveness ..... of the punishments that are never ending.

*****In the end, however, after a few fluff news stories, Hollywood galas, and high profile prodom busts, the public will lose interest. And then it will go back to the fringes, where i think it is better suited for."******

That may be true in general ...... but i have not found it true in the cold reality of day to day life. It is that "cold reality" that i would not want to see happen to those involved in this lifestyle as everyday people, who are not among those held in high esteem for their choice and their courage to be themselves and therefore accepted and treated as "OK"

Storm

Personally, I'm not Coming Out to the world re BDSM or a lot of other things either, even though all of it may be currently trendy. Especially as I'm on the submissive side of the force. That's a signal for enormous numbers of people, male or female (mostly male), in or out of the life, that they're allowed to exploit me while they are also allowed to abuse me in the ways they find most contemptuous. And this, even under the cover of a very strong dominant. (And the only reason I'm not collared is because I know I'm not fit to be. Hell, I'm a lousy submissive as it is.)

Of course, I'm pretty strong all by myself. With terrific radar.

But honestly, I'm not reading this as going out of style anytime soon. There are too many reasons, mostly because so many of us need this creative outlet to create meaningful relationships in this culture which works so against us doing so.

Of course, this only allows for more idiots to clump around, but find me anything creative and intense that doesn't attract the clueless and those who are not capable of education.

Storm

i'm sorry if i've offended you with my nonchalant attitude about this, guess my cynical nature got the better of me. While it's easy to tell some miscellaneous stranger to go screw themselves, dealing with people you know (especially family members) can be like climbing Mt. Everest. You should see me everytime my brother makes a surprise visit to my apartment. It's always, "Hide my wig!", "Hide my makeup!", "Hide my dress!" One time i had foolishly left my nail polish out, and boy did i have some explaining to do. Now he thinks i have a girlfriend (probably digging myself into a deeper hole) Only two vanilla friends of mine know about me, and they're basically fine with it. (Probably because i knew they would be the only people that wouldn't have freaked out as soon as i told them) So, i guess next time i'll heep my big typing hands in my pockets before i type something like that again.

Dwayne

Dwayne

Thank you ........ but i was not offended ,,,,,,, and you did make some very good points.

As i am allowed to have my own opinion and voice it so is everyone else.

i am a better person because of the opinions that are expressed by others ..... even if i do not agree or at times get angry. It just assures that i always have food for thought <g>.

Storm