Snipped from a message left by NightHeron on the movies board:

<<Read your essay on "Growing Up Dark". We share much in common. My father's relationship with my mother was very much the same as the relationship between your parents. My mother destroyed my father with her insane demands and jealousness as well. Perhaps there is a pattern for becoming involved in BDSM>>

Hi again, Night.

I moved this here not so much so you and I can bemoan our childhood years, but also to open a new topic for discussion...mainly the one you raise in your last sentence above.

One thing that I believe has been fairly well established among most researchers is that SMers don't seem to have any more abuse in their backgrounds than the rest of the population...but what's usually meant by abuse is physical abuse. This isn't to say that there aren't plenty of abuse survivors in the Community, but as a percentage, no more than over any other large group.

However, like you, I wonder whether the more pernicious type of abuse--emotional and psychological abuse--might not be some kind of a pattern. Most of my closest BDSM pals had incredible dysfunction in their family homes, and that dysfunction definitely shows up in their sexuality. (How could it fail to?)

But...are there patterns? Are hysterical mothers common? Or invasive ones? Or ones who never make you feel really WANTED? How about weak fathers? Or fathers who are bullies to their kids (in my mind, bullies = cowards = weaklings)? I wonder.

BTW, this thread reminded me of one of my favorite poems. Below is the first stanza of "This Be The Verse," by Philip Larkin.

"The fuck you up, your mum and dad.
  They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
  And add some extra, just for you.

i can look at people in all walks of life, in all lifestyles, and see how where they came from brought them to where they are; where we come from always plays a part in where we end up. But we react, i believe, in ways that are unique to each of us. Having an alcoholic, abusive parent may make one person grow up to be an alcoholic, abusive parent; on the other hand, it may cause a person to strongly rebel and become a sober, conscientious parent. i've seen both reactions in my time. Nature and environment go hand in hand, i believe. We aren't truly blank slates when we're born; we are unique creatures from the outset, and react in unique ways.

Which is why i've found it's a mistake to think you know anyone well enough to predict them; in extreme circumstances, people do all sorts of things you'd never think them capable of.

My, it seems i've been focused on stimulus/response this weekend. hmmmmmmmmmmm ;)

Peace, firebaby

You are a wise woman, fire.

BTW, I forgot to mention the title of a book I highly recommend to anyone working on childhood issues...

THE DRAMA OF THE GIFTED CHILD by Dr. Alice Miller

(I believe it's been re-issued with a different title but you can easily find it under the above name on Amazon, B&N and elsewhere)

My parents are, well... I don't know what they are, actually.

My Dad, he's a good man. There's has never been physical abuse with my sisters or my Mother. He doesn't smoke, drink, cuss...
Actually, he hardly speaks at all.
I can remember when I was little, I was always so close to him. It was like suddenly, it stopped.
I'm 38 years old now and I can't remember the last time my dad told me he loves me or hugged me. I've never understood why..

My mother on the other hand can be a Class-A bitch!
She's never been understanding, never been anyone I could go to for advise. She can always find a way to place "blame" on everyone but herself.

If something comes up, as children, even as adults.. our decisions are "stupid" and such.
"how could SHE raise her kids to be so stupid?"

I told her the other day - "It's always about YOU isn't it, mother?" Fuck the problems your child is having as long as NO one thinks anything about YOU.

I have a sister who is going through a divorce. She has 3 kids. I'm constantly having to verbally battle mother for the things she says to my sister.
Granted, the things my sister has done..has been hard to deal with but is constantly putting her down going to help her? NO. It will put her right back to suicidal.
She had become a heavy drinker and mixing prescription meds..
She's been through detox and all. And yes OD'd one night.
The doctors have told her, she caused damage to her heart when she OD'd and also she is in the first stages of schelorsis.

But does mother telling her all she does wrong help her? Fuck NO. Now she's back to drinking.
Does she have the support she needs from my parents? No. My dad doesn't talk and all mother does is bitch.

Several years ago.. I overdosed. Almost did a perfect job of it too. My parents came to the emergency room. Dad stayed in the car... Mother came in where I was with her ass on her shoulders.

My aunt stayed right by my side...held me, took care of me.

When I finally told mother about being raped (giving no detail to her but raped and forced to have oral sex with him - which happened a few times.) when I was 9 - He comment to me was "I can't believe I raised such stupid kids-you knew better than to be there with him" (meaning under my grandparents house)

He was my cousin... Many years later, he ended up being gay on top of being a whore and ended up with AIDS. The day before he died.. my lover Becky and I went to him. I told Becky to take Jamie out, that I had some things to say to say, that Jamie didn't need to hear.

I stood there at his bedside, watching him struggle for each breath.. Hoping to watch him take is last one. And this may sound cruel but I even told him I hope to watch him take his last breath.
I told him, he took something from me as a child that I will NEVER forget and he had NO right taking that from me. I stood there crying, telling him I will NEVER forgive him that and now it was his turn to SUFFER as myself and others in my family as kids had to do because of HIM.
He looked up at me, he couldn't speak. But he looked up at me and began crying.
I said "yes, now you cry motherfucker. How many years have I cried, had nightmares? Do you KNOW? Do you even CARE? I said it makes me HAPPY to watch YOU suffer.
I couldn't believe I could ever be so cold to anyone.. especially someone dying :(

Becky was standing at the doorway..she finally took me out.

We went back the next night. My mother and I and Becky stood at his bedside, while Mother was crying, telling him she loved him...how he's always been like one of her own...She could comfort him but never me. And then basically blame me for being in a position with him when I was 9 for such a thing to happen.

Becky finally said, "lets go home, Be"

Two hours later or less, I got a call and he had just died.

Dammit, this was NOT my fault! I was Nine!

I'm sorry Gloria, everyone.
This went much deeper than I had planned :(

Steel

Don't worry, Steel. Let it all hang out. It's good to let out the bad stuff. Makes more room for the good stuff. :-)

Obviously you needed to talk about it. I'm glad this Board gave you that chance.

smooch

Thank you Ma'am but...
It's best I shut up. I don't like nightmares.

I had great childhood. I am an omly child, and sometimes when I was younger wished I had had big brother, but there are things about being an only child that surley helped shape me. If I am thought of of half as well as either of my parents when I die, I will be happy in a sense. One of the interesting things about the lifestyle, and hell the net as well, is that both have provided me with a lot of instances of feeling "bad" cause I DID have a great childhood. Both, Gloria's articles and Steel post are both good examples of that. I have watched friends and biological and leather family members struggle with problems that were born in their childhoods and often directly at the hands of their parents. Some overcame and became stronger for it, though it did shape them, their sexuality included, others who subcomed to the problems and teh demons and are gone now. Question for you Gloria, if you go this far lol.....how do you think that my childhood, being good, having both parents there throughout, being taught about sex openly, and being raised in a conservative southern household led to me being what and who I am sexually speaking?

Justin

Justin,

I don't think any one thing makes us who we are. In terms of being kinky, like most researchers, I suspect people are born with a disposition to be kinky (or gay, or transgendered, etc. etc. etc.). The events in their childhood then shape the person. And the miracle of it all is that people can be subjected to nearly identical experiences and yet turn out totally differently; and people can come from radically different places and grow up to feel an intense affinity for each other.

Please don't feel guilty if some of us didn't benefit from the care of emotionally stable parents. Rejoice that so many of us have repaired and stabilized our lives as adults. That's how I see it. Emphasis on the present and future, no dwelling on the past.

So...how come you, with your happy homelife, turned out to be kinky?

I guess it's because...you're a PERVERT, Justin! You're a pervert. :-D

xx,

Glory

Prisoners of Childhood...

I believe the full title is: Prisoners of Childhood : The Drama of the Gifted Child and the Search for the True Self.

I read this book some odd ten years ago - I felt like I was losing my mind at the time and someone gave it to me to read.

I grew up in a household with four older women. My father was rarely there. The times he was home I practically humped his legs/feet. I can't tell you how shameful I was made to feel. I was so young, anytime a male guest was in the house, I did the same thing. Some welcomed the activity - I don't know how I made it out of that household in one piece...

I suppose I didn't: I guess I'm a work in progress. Some days I feel I have it all together, others, I feel like that small little girl, being scolded for becoming sexually aroused by a man's feet.

To this day, I still feel that remarkable combination of shame and incredible sexual arousal when it comes to men's feet.

When I was older, and a man that knew what was "up" with me, who'd known me since I was very small, lied down on a couch I was sitting on, I had a blanket on my lap. He took off his shoes, slid his socked feet under the blanket and on my lap. He masturbated me with his feet. I could feel the rush of heat come to my cheeks, I could FEEL them turn red. Just like when I was younger, I never wanted it to stop, but now I was in a room full of people, being brought to orgasm/molested by this man that just sat back, sneering at me and enjoying the humiliation I was experiencing.

How do you "get over" something like that? You don't! I believe that the puritanical ignorance of this country is a breeding ground for mental illness. I believe that no one would need to drag around all of this excess baggage that leads to a whole host of psychological disorders if we weren't shamed at such an early age, whether it has to do with sex or not.

I'll never forgot that god awful scene in Butterfield 8 with Elizabeth Taylor, whose character became a prostitute because she was sexually abused as a child(Surprise!). She was describing, in very nebulous terms because this was the early sixties, her precocious sexual origins, and she screamed in anguish, "...and I liked it. I really liked it!!"

I did to Liz, I did too...

Gloria,
       yes I AM!!!! lol And I say that happily and proudly. I also agree with what you said about ppl having the same experiences that turn out differently, AND about ne happy for others.....I was just interetsed in hearing your answer

Justin

I am a firm believer that we are born with our unique sexuality. I had an abusive father, who started hitting me when I was about 10. But I don't think it shaped my sexuality in any way. I've known(in a sense) that I was kinky since I was a little girl. I would watch someone getting spanked, and feel a strange sensation. Many years later, I realized that it was a turn-on. Since I had been intrigued by this long before I was abused, I don't think my family affected my sexuality in any way. On the other hand, it may be different for everyone. Maybe some are born with it, and some acquire it. I fully agree with Dr. Brame, that we are born kinky. I've felt this way my whole life, but never knew how to express it until I found this site. And for what abusive parents do for you, I think it helps us to be stronger in a sense. I learned at an early age to take responsibility for myself, and not depend on others for my needs. I would love to hear all of your thoughts on what shapes out sexuality.

TigerLily

Ok here we go!! My Mother..though I love her, is a very domineering, in a passive aggressive way. She is a martyr who will lend a hand, but keeps tabs on everything she does for anybody. And does she ever nag. The only way my father, (an easy going alcoholic with high blood pressure who has the occasional outburst of "Will you leave ME ALONE!!") can stop her from nagging the hell out of him is to do an imitation of Ms. Othmar, the teacher from Charlie Brown. You know, the muted trumpet sound?? Then, she gets defensive and teary eyed, saying "that isn't very nice". Any time I see her, she either makes some comment about my manner of dress, hair, or noses in on my life and gives me a list of tasks to complete that really aren't that important to me. So, to stop her incessant nagging, I say I will do what ever she nags me of, and don't. She is ever worried about what the impression I make on other people says about her.
  So, who am I due my upbringing?? Intensely self sufficient. I have extreme difficulty asking for things from anybody, even including my Sister, because I am always fearful of when the debt will come due, or that I am imposing. On the flipside, I try to be very helpful to others, sometimes even to the point of being overly generous, and get walked on. I am also constantly apologizing for no reason(something the kind Mistress who is training me is trying desparately to cure me of). I have since childhood held interest and played sports normally played by men, and held careers normally held and dominated by men. I have, what I call a "Jesus complex", feeling not that I have to be perfect morally, but that I have to make a valiant attempt. This meaning, as Jesus was, I have to be accommodating to others, and accepting of them and their differences. I even have the feeling sometimes that I need to save people from their own ineptitude...by doing things myself...the "right" way.(forgive me for how that sounds). Sexually, although I find BDSM extremely erotic and fun, I think that being tied up or forced takes the guilt away a bit. I have an over active super ego...and BDSM is about the only time the id wins out. I am a study in paradox...the control freak who loves to be tied up. The non drinking daughter of an alcoholic. The accomodating daughter of a pretentious nag.
  I am bi sexual, but have only done BDSM scenes with women. I feel BDSM gives me a nurturing I never got from my mother. It is the only place where I can be weak, and feel ok about it.
  I know I cannot come out to my family or I will be nagged to death. I only tell my mother what she needs to know, all else I keep to myself, and the few I trust to know.
  I believe my upbringing has shaped my involvement in BDSM, but I do think I also was blessed with the "gene". As a kid I remember feeling tingly when I watched "Wonder Woman" and she was interrogating someone with her magic lasso. I also remember being jealous of Batman and Robin when the Catwoman or Joker had them trapped. I would be at the edge of my seat waiting for tomorrow..."same Bat time, same Bat channel". So, I suppose I believe in both nature and nurture. I think people are born with certain predispositions, but environment and opportunity bring them out....and my environment sure brought my "kink gene" into the light!!!

 Please forgive me for the rambling, and for this apology!!! lol

    diana

My parents excessively punished me physically. In another community their treatment would have been considered child abuse. Even within our out-of-timestep community they were regarded as rather excessive.

In no way did I find their punishment erotic, either as a child or in memory.

They died within days of each other a half decade ago. There is a connection between their deaths and finally understanding -- accepting? -- this aspect of my nature I am sure.

Whether or not this observation provides any insight to this discussion, however, that I'm not sure of. <smile>

Diana,

You're apologizing for apologizing, eh?

:-O You poor baby.

How many times a day do you figure you say "I'm sorry"?
Do you think you could ever go through a day without saying it at all?

Glory

DrGlory,
  The Mistress who is training me has made a point of briging it to my attention, so I believe I do it less now than before. I guess just that passage has been 3 times already today. I will have to see if I can go through a whole day. And if I can't...then I will keep count. Sorry I don't have a clearer answer for you. Just kidding!! =)

   diana

Dr Glory
Thank you for this site I am beginng to realize that there are others just like me.
In reading this thread I follow Justin in that I came from a good family and I was an only child. I can't say that there was ever any abuse in our home, but my first memory of self play used bondage and pain. I went on to read anything I could about inflicting pain and bondage on others and almost all the books on bdsm. My parents taught me that sex was bad and dirty (smiling) but it didn't stop me. I realize now that I am a switch enjoying both sides of the fence. Because of my parents I drove my feelings deep underground for most of my adult life afraid to open the door to the light. I thought I had married a woman that would play only to find out she wanted nothing of my games. Now I would like very much to
live some of my life for me, but my fears of losing my family has me securely locked in the closet.
Is there any hope?
snidley whiplash

Glory,

My father was a good man. A strong one. He survived the depression and WWII, got an education, and built himself a business. The American dream. The only thing he couldn't survive was my mother.

Everybody says their mother is crazy, but mine is diabolic. She killed my father with the stress from her constant, jealous nagging. Killed him just as surely as if she had put a gun to his head. My father wasn't a weak man. He was a decorated vet. His fault was that he had a very simplistic idea of what love was. He felt that when you marry someone, you make a commitment. If someone you loved was physically sick, you don't leave them. The same went if they were mentally sick. Unfortunately, this line of thinking only works if you have the knowledge to deal with mental illness and if you are physically strong. In the end, weakend by cancer, she finally got the better of him. When she destroyed the last bit of love her had for her, he stopped caring about life. If ever anyone actually WILLED themselves to die, it was my father.

What I learned from my parent's relationship was that you must respect love, not idolize it. Love can save you, but it can also kill you.

Yes, for some love is perfume and flowers and romance. Those few are truely blessed. However, for most others love is clandestine warfare. A dirty game that requires skill, cunning, and strength just to survive, let alone win.

Nightheron

I have talked about my life a lot here but for a moment want to think of my M's upbringing and how it shaped him as a Dom - not something he is open to talk about but I haven't asked that in detail yet. I know he was punished with a belt for all infractions and if the 4 boys didnt tattle on each other they all got it. He was a rough and tumble kid growing up in the 50's and 60's and I see how he finds it easy to be able to punish or reward according to behavior - but what i like most about him is he uses his BDSM with control and never punishes me physically - but where oh where did he learn the art of the mind fuck?????? hes an expert at it. Damn....I do love him!

ummmmmmm well I did this once and right in the middle I got bumped so I guess that I will try this again.

I am now of the opinion that I was born a submissive, and while I did not have the "text book" type of submissive awakenings I am a submissive just the same.

My life, my experiences, my parents, my husband ...... well I do believe that they all served to distort my submissiveness.
I never really knew my parents. No they did not die when I was young ..... but it was almost as if I really did not exist.

Both of my parents were alcoholics

Both of my parents were alcoholics ....... and that as well as the years that I spent in the hospital I guess sort of set the stage for my life.

I remember very little before the age of 11 and the bit that I do remember is well void of connection.

I was one of those "lucky" ones. The mass vaccinating that went on in the school during the polio epidemic was what did me in. Out of some 800 elementary kids I was the one to get POLIO from the vaccine.

There was some discussion as to did the vaccine save my life or did it give me POLIO. All tended to believe that the latter was the case.

The years spent in and out of the hospital did damage to any relationship that I might have had with my family. You see ..... back in the 50's ..... if you were in long term hospital treatment as I was ..... parents were allowed to visit with their children 4 hours a week on Sunday. That is just not enough time to do much bonding .... especially when you are a child.

When I was finally allowed back into the world ... people were still so terrified of POLIO that I was treated more like I was a leper than anything else. The word POLIO was never mentioned in my house once I was home.

Oh sure I went for my check ups, but it was as though at those times ..... I entered another world

My parents acted as though that time really never happened and I just was too scared to ask. I remember learning that I had been in a coma when I was in an Iron Lung when I was 15, only because there was a show on TV about ...... just how aware people where when they were in a coma. There was much debating and I made a comment that I did not think that it could be possible to know what was going on in a person in a coma. My father blurted out that I had been in a coma.
I asked when and he told me that it had been when I was first hospitalized an in the Iron Lung.

We never discussed it after that but I remember all of the different people that came and went as patients during that time. I remember other things now too .... and the worst was my parents ... or maybe it was just my mother, standing over me saying to someone that she just wished that I would die.

I just remember that recently and I wish that my mother was still alive so that I could ask her about that ... but she is not.

My parents fought all of the time. I thin now that my mother was the Dominant and my father the submissive. My mother was also a very mean and nasty as well as violent person when she was drunk.

Most of the time both she and my father just ignored me, but when my mother was drinking ...... I could do nothing right ..... I was worthless ..... and I had done nothing but ruin their lives.

It seemed that no matter what I did it was either never right or never good enough. Thinking back, I got hit a lot by my mother but I do not remember ever getting hugged or told that I was loved. I also did mostly everything ALONE.

My best friend was my dog Blackie and then my horse Restless.

ummmmmm I guess that might just have something to do with why I am a loner today.

Storm

 nightheron2 ......

My father also survived WWII, the depression, got an education, patented a few things but he did survive my MOM.

She had a massive stroke at the age of 50 and spent the next 11 years paralyzed and unable to talk. For the first 5 years my father took care of her at home ... and I was the one that he called to take her to speech therapy or any of the other doctor's that she needed to go to. When she had to go into a Nursing home he was there twice a day feeding and talking to her.

They may have had a relationship that I did not understand ..... but my father was devoted to my mother until the end.

I remember the yelling ... the fights .. my mother throwing beer bottles at my father .... her hitting him ..... yet ........

I at times wonder what lead to me to my joy of being a submissive. I recently got married to the love of my life, and we still are just exploring our D/s relationship. I believe my submission nature is a very deep-rooted thing which I only recently had the courage to explore, and explore I did....:) As for my parents, they meant well but are what I class as religious zealots. It was not until I was near 17 years of age that they gave me a book published by the church with dealt with sex. We did not discuss sex or anything of the sort in the home. I was molested by another man when I was 16, enduring the taunts of my schoolmates and a court case forcing me to detail the events. Through all of this I became very shy but was still fascinated with sexual matters and my own body. I think that in some ways my whole sexual being of wanting to be a submissive and was a way of striking out at my parents, the church and everything that stood for. Not that my parents know of my sexual inclinations. So somewhere in the combination of my parents lack of love, lack of communication, the strict religious upbringing, and the abuse and my shyness this all manifested itself into whom I am today......a happy sub.....:)
It was not until I meet my wife, met on the Internet, that I was able to truly open up and able to talk with her about my true feelings. She is a wonderful Lady....:)
So do I thank my parents or what? Unfortunately I still feel some bitterness towards them in that I feel the love just wasn't there when I needed them most.

Dutchman,

<<Unfortunately I still feel some bitterness towards them in that I feel the love just wasn't there when I needed them most.>>

I can say, I know that feeling and still do.
So, what do we do?

How can we thank someone that "shut down" on us, as the child...or as an adult for that matter.?

With children, although I don't have any of my own.. I still try so very hard to be totally opposite of my parents..
I always want to be more than they ever were to me..

I have an aunt that I adore and I know she will be and has always been there, when I've needed someone. She's been more of a "mother" a "mom" to me, that mine ever has and I love her, and appreciate her so very much :)

Even if I can never say "thank you" to my parents... I CAN say it to her and mean every word of it :)

Steel.

Hi A/all!

I just "love" this site and can relate so well to everyone in this forum, it is heaven sent.

I accidently stumbled upon this wonderful lifestyle about 5 months ago. I was married, (not so happily, but I had settled and I have a son so I accepted what I had chosen and had moved on ) My life was very plain, (like vanilla) and I thought that was simply as good as it got, until however, I began exploring BDSM.

I uncovered a different world and I realized then that I was submissive natured and that the reason I was not satisfied in my marriage (at all!) was because I needed a Master, a man that was in control of himself and of me.

My father was VERY dom, and my mom was submissive, but he made her life miserable! I spent my childhood in fear of him , and felt pitty for my mom, until recently , after I had my child I realized that my parents were human, and just as screwed up as the rest of us. I realized that they did the best they knew how, and that I certainly was not perfect enough to sit and judge them for what they did or did not do.
As a result of my change in thinking, I have a very good relationship with my father now. My parents divorced, when I was 14, and my dad is very much alone, while my mother is remarried.

Recently my father had heart surgery and stayed in my house for his recovery, since I am the only person he has in life, and that brought us even closer.

I don't know what connection my upbringing might have to being in this lifestyle but the fact is that it has surely changed my life. I met a Master on line, and He made me see things VERY clearly. I realized that I was worth a lot more than my husband ever gave me credit for, and that I wanted much more out of life. I realized that I deserved to be happy, so now I am starting a new life with my loving Master and I am feeling ,for the first time, alive.(btw, I am not ending my marriage only because of what I mention above, there is more to it, if there wasn't I would not consider ending a marriage where there is a child involved.)

Hugs!
OneHappyslave!

This isn't about my parents, but it is about my childhood, so I figured it might go here:

[snipped from a post by me on... the Special Needs section, methinks. If you've read that one, there's more stuff at the end.]

<< Regarding Gloria's point about there being Doms who were abused as kids: I was never sexually abused, but I was basically physically tortured by a physical therapist treating me for a physical disability. The things she did to me were painful to the point where I think she'd gone well past any beneficial effects. She also verbally humiliated me when I physically couldn't do (because of the disability) what she told me to do.

I wondered at first whether my sadistic fantasies were replays of the pain I suffered at her hands. One of the things taht kept me from getting into the Scene was, I think, that very fear -- that I wanted to become her, to "do unto others what had been done to me" (to quote onr of my favorite Tool songs.)

I don't know why, but I've let go of that. I realized that if there is a connection, it doesn't matter. If I want to be her, I want to be an honorable version of her -- the one who does these things for good reasons -- who respects limits -- who cares about people -- who respects a real signal to "stop". >>

I no longer *worry* about the connections between this stuff and my sadistic side; I know I'm an honorable person, and I do SM to make people, on whatever level, feel good or feel good about themselves. I wouldn't do it to harm or abuse them. That I've certainly made my peace with.

But I often wonder if these experiences brought my sadistic side to the fore -- I've been tortured, in a sense; unlike children who haven't had to deal with this, I knew what it was like to step into a room twice a week, same bat time, same bat channel... and suddenly be in a world of pain.

If I never had this knowledge, I wonder whether my SM leanings would still be buried in me. I always had a fascination with the "Amazon", warrior-woman archetype, and I always dreamed of being one. So it's fair to say I've always been toppy in some way, without necessarily having the strong SM leanings.

But then again, that may have had to do with the same thing again: the feeling I had as a kid, reinforced by her humiliating treatment of me, that my body is weak, inferior, and bad, may have led me to have "escapist" fantasies in which I was, say She-Ra, Princess of Power, or some other mighty heroine.

Who knows? I sure as hell don't. I'm fine with who and what I am -- in fact, happier with both than I ever was before finding the Scene -- but I can't help but wonder about this.

Hi All-
 I wrestle with the issue of why I am wired for BDSM quite a bit. It is odd for me, since I hate being in the position of being told what to do in real life, and am never fully comfortable with being in authority either. And I am not a violent or short temptered person in any way. Odd for a switch, wouldn't you say? My family had their dysfunctional side, but not as bad as some families. When I am a little less tired and a bit more brave, I may discuss it here.
 The only point I wanted to make was, if a dysfunctional family made for someone to be into BDSM, most all of us would be walking around with either a bullwhip in our hands and/or a target on our butts.
And we would be in the majority, and vanilla people would be writing on boards like this....
  Have a good evening people. Play well-W